I need help making a survival pack(a light one)

[SHOOTALL]

Empty Quiver thanks you hit the nail on the head . I would add in a survival situation it might be to ones advantage to be able to store the scope and use iron sights in bad weather or at times when the going is rough and damage to the scope could occure.
 
HOLY COW some go off with out reading what is written , must have an agenda or something ! 
 
All that said , In a survival it may be in ones best intrest to use a scoped rifle to see what is going on. It is a survival situation and you may be in hostile areas for crying out loud !
 
And to relieve all doubt in some survival situations people will do things to stay alive that they would otherwise not do. That's the reality of a situation that would cause the bulk of Americans to be forced into a survival situation , all normal behavior may  be suspended in a effort to stay alive. Innocent folks will die at the hand of desperate people just trying to live. That is why we need to get off our collective azz and vote in leaders that bring back personal freedom and stop supporting those who keep sacrificing freedom to keep their seat in govt.

[myronman3]

Q D Quick Detach. Take it off the gun look at stuff then replace. This would seem to address your safety concerns, no?


Not putting words in any ones mouth but this is how I read the post.

me too.   relax.
 

[Couger]

Take it off the gun first ..... then replace! (bullshot!    ) 
Not putting any words in anyone's mouth. 
Going off because of what's written?
Has an agenda .....
(yeah, to be safe and "use my head" like my father dunned into me as a boy is my agenda)
 
Y'ALL ARE LYING TO YOURSELVES!  (but go ahead)
 
When I worked in several gun stores and shops, the best and easiest way to see out of those scopes was with a shoulder-held stock!  Made esp by Burris or Bushnell, etc., for comparing two such scopes to each other.  Also when I've seen biologists, wardens, even photographers need to see quickly AND CONVENIENTLY in the field through a 20X, 30X or 40X spotting scope, again mounting such an optic on a [specially made custom] shouldered stock (versus some kind of tripod that takes several minutes to set up)  was the easiest and quickest way to go!
 
So why would they then try to hold their scope by hand?

But with such integrity and being paragons of safety, y'all are going to take several seconds to reattach your "sight" if you see something you need to shoot right away!  Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose for having a scoped-gun!!?? (duh?)
 
But y'all are saying joe-average-public isn't going to just say "screw it!  I'm not taking MY SCOPE OFF!  ...... Besides, no one's gonna know ........?!"  (never mind that again, this will be a gun -likely loaded, thats pointed at people  )
 
Yeah right!  With your smarts and lack of safety, if it was a normal situation and you were you in my hunting area, I'd ask ya' which direction you were going to hunt, then I'd get the hell away from ya' FAST!
 
If its a SHTF situation and you're still being foolish when I happened to pass you, AGAIN I think y'all are very dangerous (and cheap    ) and would want nothing to do with you.
 
If you were a brother, cousin, freind I'd still get the hell away from you until you wised up!  Were my dad still alive and he saw me doing something REALLY STUPID like y'all are trying to justify, he'd chew my azz but good!  That is if he could no longer kick my azz.  (and "disappointed" in me is an understatement if I let my son act dumb).
 
Have fun.

[Couger]

For those others reading this, several decent and not-too-expensive binoculars are available if you're smarter than my "colleagues." 
 
I'm partial to Leupold, who offers their 6X 30mm BN Yosemite binoes for @$85.  those glasses weigh 24 ounces or there abouts.
 
Bushnell also offers several binoes from around $30 up to $80-$100.  Nikon offers some $30-$40-$50 models too.  Everything I saw listed with the Leupy's were 6X, 7X, or 8X weighing 17 to 24 ounces.
 
Of course there are much better (and much worse) binoes not listed at all kinds of price ranges, odten bulky but sometimes compact too.

[Victor3]

 In a survival situation, one will be forced to do a multitude of thing that would be considered "unsafe" under normal conditions.
 
 Glassing the field with a scope mounted to a rifle would be low on my list of safety concerns since I know how to do it with 0% possibility of the rifle discharging. 

[jlwilliams]

  Money.  Bring some cash. Maybe a credit card too.
 
  Here's why.  First, in the scenario you describe (broken down, trying to get home) the goal is to get out of the woods and get home.  Once out of the woods, you need transportation.  That costs money.  Second, what if the experiment goes bad?  You need to get out of the woods and eat and maybe get a motel room.  Thirdly, a survival situation may well (and often does) turn into a situation where you are asking some stranger for help.  A great many people will help you out of the kindness of their hearts, but an offer to top off the gas tank may be welcomed.  Other folks might help you, if there is something in it for them.  You'll be trading off a gun unless you have some cash. 
 
  I know someone is going to say "Where I'm going to be there is no place to spend money."  Really?  Sure about that?  The whole idea is to be ready for whatever comes your way and you don't really (I mean really) know what that may be.  Money helps. Money always helps.  If you had a dollar for every time you said "Boy, I'm glad I didn't have any money with me today!" you'd be flat broke and probably not glad of it.
 
  Lastly, money doesn't weigh much.  It won't drag you down to keep a hundred (or two hundred) bucks and a plastic card.  Money is the ultimate in light weight survival gear in the real world.
 
  Also, I think you guys are going a little loaded down with guns.  One gun between the three is plenty.  I'd bring a hatchet and maybe an E-tool, both of which I keep in my vehicle, in place of the dead weight of extra guns.  Maybe a tarp or some contractor type trash bags.  It's fairly common for people to put too much emphasis on guns when thinking of survival.  It looks to me from the list that you may be making that mistake here.  Realisticly, what's the 30-30 for?  For a few days in the bush you might bag some small game or birds.  The shotgun or the 22 will be plenty, in fact more than most people will have in a similar situation.  I know you are planning to model a breakdown on your way out hunting, but that seems like a rationalle for having more guns than you need.  Also, it looks like a hunting trip with guns but not much other hunting gear.  Again, looking like a rationalle for an unrealistic arsenal.
 
  Maybe bring some line, hooks and sinkers for drop line fishing.  Around most bodies of water in populated areas you can find lures and line in trees where they got snagged and the fisherman just cut his line.  In a pinch that's what I'd be looking for but for this exercise I'd bring some along just to increase your chances.  Dig some grubs or worms and hook them, maybe you can get some fish.  I keep a yo-yo fish reel and some basic stuff in my get home bag in the car.  Fishing is a productive way to get food and fishing equipment is less likely to be legally problematic.  I'll leave that in the pack in the car, a gun I don't leave out in the car for months at a time unattended. Just wouldn't do that.
 
  Great idea, the minimalist trip.  Let us know how it goes.

[SHOOTALL]

Cougar believe as you wish , I said QD because that's what I intended NO BS . Take a deep breath and consider , If you are living out of a pack weight is of importance. Everthing you add brings up the total weight. The weight of your bios could better be used for food or water even ammo. Yes there are several pairs that weigh little but little things add up.
 
 
BTW if right handed , hold scope in left hand and thumb and middle finger on right hand. Place fore finger on right hand on temple . This gives some support if possible use a tree , building etc as support. Supprised you did not know this as its also the best way to insure bios stay steady in wind or while moving on land or water.

[WD45]

Come on you all. The typical hunter will have a pack of beef jerky and a couple candy bars with a 6 pack of soda to wash it down with. He will have a gun of whatever kind that has not been shot since last year and whats left of a box of ammo that he has had for at least 10 years. There will be plenty of empty cans rolling around under the seat with the tire iron but no jack. Some old napkins in the glove box and no lighter or matches cause smoking has been banned every where. Whats going to be in the average joe hunters truck.. nuthin much.. Tires do burn pretty well though..  ... wait now there will be 3 of ya so tripple that
Reminds me a bit of the dual survivor guys

[SHOOTALL]

Problem is the average hunter in the lower 48 thinks little about survival since most don't get far from their truck. The ones that do carry peanutbutter crackers , Candy bars, lots of nuts and trail mix along with some freeze dried food that they like. They look for a calorie to weight ratio that gives the most for least weight. They carry good equipment that is lite. They don't try to be Rambo . Each item they pack has several uses if possible. Water and a water filter is #1 to most. They wear/carry clothes that work over a broad spectrum of weather conditions . Seems some will waste room and weight on things like bio's when a scope will do several task which is a luxury you may be better to switch out for med's , food or clean socks IMHO !

[Couger]

Cougar believe as you wish , I said QD because that's what I intended NO BS . Take a deep breath and consider .......

I have considered!  You're daft!  And you've obviously never been anywhere you needed to see beyond 100-150 yards! (certainly not in the West, certainly not at sea or on a huge lake).
 
Because if you had  been in the West (esp to hunt, hike, camp, etc) maybe you'd begin to undertsand the distances between things (valleys, the next ridge, the next mountain, that the mountain you're looking at is 3X further away than you thought, etc).  Seriously!  (I have indeed considered!)
 
As for the proper way to hold binoes?  (laughing!)  I mentioned only six to eight power binoes ...... because after 8X it becomes difficult for most people to hold them steady enough that they aren't (even a little) "fuzzy."  And 6X, 7X, and 8X are the mediAN powers in field glasses.  10X is generally too powerful (usually) unless the binoe are held against something SOLID like a tree or fence post to make them steady.
 
As for using any optic or shooting, the fastest method is sit on one's butt with elbows LOCKED inside and against the knees.  And with binoes in particular, the thumbs and fore fingers are solidly against the forehead as the binoes are securely held inside.  And if you're hunting in the West for things like mule deer, elk, pronghorns, etc. if you're seriously trying spot game, you're in that position ALOT!

[SHOOTALL]

Cougar , I was telling how the US Navy says how to hold bios when the boat is moving and you are trying to hold steady as it was explained to me it works . I fish both the Chesapeake Bay and Gulf Stream from time to time they seem kind of big I think . When in the Gulf S we are about 50 -70 miles off shore . When I first fished it we used a map and compass. I have also hunted lake Winnipeg .
Now if you would open your mind you would understand trying to tote all you need on your back. I have done so and each time reduced what I took the next time . You are making the mistakes of a tinderfoot trying to justify things you can get by with out. Consider that until recent history humans survived in the west , on the water and else where with out bio's or even guns.
Since  we are not to attack another poster I won't. I will how ever point out you don't know me or what I have done , how or where I hunt or anything else about my experinces. I would further point out other posters had no trouble understanding what I posted and saw the value in it. If you do need a survival pack in a bad situation I sincerly hope you reconsider what you pack and cut it to a minium. Or at least bury what you realize you can't tote very far or fast as if you don't tracking you would be easy following the disgarded stuff left by the trail.

[teamnelson]

I packed a 10x rubber armored monocular all over Iraq on 2 combat tours, and it survived a direct hit by an IED comprised of 4 155 Howitzer shells with a 35lb propane tank for accelerant ... so I'm not kidding when I say its bombproof gear. Very lightweight, and cheap. It is official practice to use the 4x ACOG to scout out while attached to your weapon - I wouldn't think twice about doing the same in a survival situation. Although I will have my monocular with me and its got greater magnification, albeit a smaller field of view.

If you've read my posts before, I hope you've picked up that I'm not the guy who'll be hauling a game cart with all my essential gear. I don't believe that's a sustainable survival load out. I do think its quite possible to pack a reasonable all purpose load out for all but the extreme of 4 seasons, comprised of lightweight durable mulitpurpose gear, and keep the weight no more than 45#.

One thing I have become convinced of is that the lightest backpack is not the strongest. If your pack fails that's a big deal ... don't need the biggest, or the most expensive, just big enough and durable. That means it may weigh twice the go-light, that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make.

Highly recommend anyone interested in building out a lightweight survival pack read up on thru-hiking. If it'll make it from Georgia to Maine, its probably good gear.

[gatorshooter]

Some good ideas, the spider wire fishing line and a few hooks makes sense. I used to have a altoids tin with a few hooks, some mono, a few very small lead weights. and a few meds in blister packs, a few diff sized safety pins, water proof matches and dryer lint. single side razor blade wrapped in cardboard, and some dental floss and large sewing needle.  where did I put that....
the inside of the tin could be used as  a signal mirror. It was a good idea way back, don't know why I left it out. I will have to find mine or make another.  thanks for the reminder.
 
as far as a hunting truck without a working jack? That is just asking for trouble. I have a 12 ton hyd bottle jack in mine.. the 12 ton was tall enough to get my lifted 4x4 off the ground.. It works great. cant tell you how many times I have used it for other stuff as well.  I have had to jack the truck up then shovel sand and firewood under the tires to self extract my truck from a washout rut in some loose sand. boy that was a Job but I didn't have to spend the night in the woods or walk out because I had a good jack and the folding shovel. when I bring my trailer I bring a highlift jack it is very usefull for a lot of stuff too.
 
My BOB is one of the newer military surplus bags with the camel back slot in the back. Its not too big I think its called a assault pack. has the molly(sp) web straps on the outside I attached the canteen and a few diff sized pouches to the outside to hold my compass, med kit, mag pouch, etc... I like it because of its size I don't overload it. My old alice pack I tended to carry too much stuff. heck, The pack itself with the waist belt and the alum frame was heavy before you put a thing in it. the current military gear is very well made. there is a military base I pass going to my deer lease. I tend to stop and check out the surplus stores near there. lots of good stuff at reasonable prices.
 
 

[SHOOTALL]

another consideration is not looking like you have alot. A nice pack or military pack and equipment may make you stand out after the fact when people start to look around for ways to survive. Might be a good idea to hide your pack/equipment in a trash bag when in crowded locations looking more homeless than ready for fredie.
Consider what you will need bare min if possible , Water with a way to secure more like a filter, food on hand and ablity to get more by trapping , fishing or hunting , maybe by force if need be.Compass and maps. Shelter be it buildings where you are or tarp. Clothes layers make the most sense light weight modern materials also and a sewing kit to sew up tears in clothes and skin. First aid and meds with maybe a first aid guide and some small bottles of booze to clean with or relieve pain. Gun and ammo for hunting and protection , amount of ammo is up to you. I have read that in Africa during WW1 and 2 scouts carried 160 to 180 rounds , CITIZEN SOILDER says 250 for rifle and 50 for handgun. Fire starting equipment 3 kinds , Knife(s), Poncho and liner , I like 2 ponchos one for tarp . Flash light and battries along with a candle light ( in most cases light won't be used asit will give you away .Cord , Tape, boots if you aren't wearing them when things go bad. Since this might be a bag carried for a long time on foot I would limit personal items maybe some dice , cards , seasoning for food or such. A small radio ( I have one that is AM, FM amd 8 SW channels , its about 4 inch X 2.5 inch  X 3/4 thick uses 2 AA bat. very little weight.
I would always be looking around to up grade what I had or resupply what I had used. If possible I would always head to the South where its warmer for comfort and more aval. food .
A shovel might be nice as would a axe . Bio's would be nice to have but look at the list some things listed won't go as they add weight.
If you will be traveling with wife , childern etc odd items can be spread over the group as only one axe would be needed , extra food or ammo can be splt up etc.
Consideration also must include crossing rivers etc. A pass or bridge is a choke point where you could get in trouble if the bad guys control it. Best know some routes and have a good map and compass with knowlege to use them.

[gatorshooter]

I agree with you, keeping a low profile is a good idea. I am fortunate to live in the gulf south. Wearing camo clothing or having a camo backpack, etc.. does not make you stand out. In other places that would be a serious factor.
I see about 15 camo back packs (teachers and kids) when I drop my kids off at elem. school. Yesterday at the park, there were 5 women in Camo shirts ( I just love G.R.I.T.S.-- Girls Raised in the south!)  not to mention almost every guy had at least a camo hat on. 
 
If I lived in a more metropolitan area I would use a black (laptop type backpack or bag) or even the all tan ones as a GHB (get home bag).
 
My work counter part said having a kids backpack loaded with necessary items would raise no eyebrows. I laughed at the idea at first. However, he said "would you suspect a guy in a regular dress type rain overcoat carring a spongebob backpack to be packing a glock and a M4 shorty in a crisis type situation? Or would it just look like, some daddy just trying to get home from work with his kids stuff he got from his trunk?"  I had to agree that he would not look like anyone that has prepared for this situation and had anything of real value in a crisis situation.... If you appear to look like everyone else that would be the purpose and def. of  urban camoflage.

[jlwilliams]

I packed a 10x rubber armored monocular all over Iraq on 2 combat tours, and it survived a direct hit by an IED comprised of 4 155 Howitzer shells with a 35lb propane tank for accelerant ... so I'm not kidding when I say its bombproof gear. Very lightweight, and cheap. It is official practice to use the 4x ACOG to scout out while attached to your weapon - I wouldn't think twice about doing the same in a survival situation. Although I will have my monocular with me and its got greater magnification, albeit a smaller field of view.

\
 
  That sounds like a good piece of optic.  Where might I find one like it?
 
  I keep a pair of 12x binocs in my car.  Nothing fancy.  I think they are Tasco.  They were on clearance at WalMart last year so I grabbed them.  Something to have in the car that I won't be out a hundred bucks if it's stolen.  I like to have somthing for 'long looking' close at hand.  That sort of stuff is fun when you aren't in a dangerous position and could be vital when you are.  Anyway, I keep good ones in the house, cheap ones in the cars, tackle boxes, etc.  The one you describe sounds like something I should get.
 
  Thinking further on the premise of the OP.  I whole heartedly believe that the primative campout is a good exercise.  I would like to say that given the premise (vehicle breakdown when no one will be coming for a few days) wouldn't it make more sense to stay at the vehicle?  The vehicle is shelter.  Once the party is noticed as being missing, the vehicle is what will be searched for.  If they look for you with aircraft, the vehicle gives them an easy to spot camp sight.  The vehicle can hold way more provision than you can carry, and should be stocked to some degree all the time for just this reason.  Again, I like the idea of the trip, but I'm questioning the premise.  Not to talk you out of anything but to get the thought process going for all of us.  If the vehicle breaks down, why or why not stick close to it?  Fish, hunt, trap close to it and sleep in it.  If large predators are a factor, or poisonous snakes; then an off the ground, enclosed vehicle sounds like a swell place to sleep.  What do the rest of you think?

[gatorshooter]

I watched a part of some survivor show on tv. and they stayed close to the out of gas truck, but not in it?  They said they could make a fire and heat their built shelter easier than trying to keep the truck warm? It was a single cab pickup so I guess the two guys would not of been able to sleep in the cab. I would of thought that getting under the Pick ups bed would be better. as it would be better to shelter under from the rain. build a fire behind the truck and reflect heat under it using the removable tail gate, the fire would be better seen if it was on the road as well not up in the trees. just my .02 but these guys are survior experts or something like that......
 
One hot summer I took a nap in the middle of the day in the only shade around... under my Jeep. took my keys, set the break, locked the doors (hard top)  and crawled under with my jean jacket rolled up for a pillow. slept for about a hour, cooled off then got back to work. not a bad place to nap. I would do it again If I had to.  I guess just depends on  where the vehicle is at the time it dies.  In that situation... under my Jeep was a lot cooler than everywhere else.
 
I have been tossing the idea around of getting a camper top for my truck bed....that would make it the ideal place to stay. I camped a few nights in my grandfathers truck that way. He built two sets of sawhorses that fit inside the fenderwells of his truck he had two pieces of thick plywood on top that could be tilted up to access what was under it. we put air mattress on that and sleeping bags. very comfy. just pain in the rear to crawl in and out of with the tailgate up to go pee at night. :-)

[kynardsj]

There are some things that are always in my jeep. Two well stocked fanny packs with all the essentials for an unexpected stay in the woods, a plastic toolbox where I keep different kinds of snacks, a jacket and a loaded 45 LC Vaquero with an ammo wallet full of 12 extra rounds. Short of a SHTF scenario I and a companion could do ok for 2-3 days.