Author Topic: Lies To Prevent Multi-State Concealed Carry  (Read 908 times)

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Offline saddlebum

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Lies To Prevent Multi-State Concealed Carry
« on: October 03, 2011, 02:44:08 AM »
By Paul Carpenter;
 
A bill in Congress, co-sponsored by most of the Pennsylvania delegation, including U.S. Rep. Charles Dent, R-Lehigh Valley, would require every state to honor the gun permits issued by every other state. That, CeaseFirePa yelped on Thursday, "would expand the Florida loophole to every state," allowing pistol-packing yahoos to run amok. 
The problem with those claims is that they are bogus. The entire premise is false. Let's start with what happened in Philly.
 
Marqus Hill, it was reported, had his gun permit revoked by city police. That, said The Philadelphia Inquirer, happened "after a 2005 confrontation with officers." He then got a permit by using "the Florida loophole," as CeaseFirePA put it.
 
That "frightening loophole," wailed the Philadelphia Daily News, resulted in 18-year-old Irving Santana getting shot full of holes by Hill. "Outrageous," the paper said. "How many more people have to be killed before lawmakers buck the NRA and move to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them?"
 
The Lancaster Intelligencer Journal/New Era, blaming the reciprocity "loophole" for taking Santana's life, thundered that the new measure in Congress "threatens to force Pennsylvania to accept reciprocity with every other state."
 
On Wednesday, a Pittsburgh Post-Gazette editorial cited the Santana case as proof of a "lunatic loophole" and said the proposal in Congress, if enacted, will cause untold "mischief and misery" everywhere.
 
Before you join the stampede to repeal the second item in the Bill of Rights, consider a few other facts.
 
First, a gun permit had nothing to do with the Santana shooting, one way or the other. Police said Hill was in an apartment when Santana and two other thugs tried to break into his car. He "bolted" out of the apartment with a gun to confront them. Hill said one of the thugs also had a gun.
 
There is no legal requirement for a permit to carry a gun that is not concealed. Permits are only for concealed handguns.
 
Second, Hill was denied a concealed gun permit by police on the flimsiest of grounds. He was not convicted of any crime and was employed as a security guard. That's why he had to resort to the Florida "loophole."
 
Third, a judge threw out the weapons charges against Hill, but kept the homicide charges, apparently because of excessive force. (Santana had 13 holes in him.)
 
The Florida gun permit and any other reciprocal agreement between states had absolutely nothing to do with the Hill-Santana situation. Legally, the situation would be exactly the same if there were no reciprocal agreements, no "loopholes," or no gun permits whatsoever.
 
The gun control frenzy in this situation is based entirely on fraudulent arguments.
 
A few other points need to be raised.
 
Those who justify gun control by saying the Second Amendment applies only to a "militia" (which they say now refers to the National Guard) apparently cannot read.
 
The people who drafted that amendment — notably James Madison and George Mason — explicitly and clearly defined "militia" as those armed citizens who are not under government control. Does that sound like the National Guard to you?
 
In Switzerland, virtually every law-abiding citizen is armed. Mexico has rigid gun control and only government authorities can legally be armed. In terms of crime problems, which of those two societies do you think has a better approach?
 
Gun permits are licenses that apply only to the privilege of concealed guns. Rights and privileges are not the same. Self-defense is a right; driving a car is a privilege. Free societies can never let government restrict rights for the sake of expediency.
 
I'd like to see what certain newspapers would say if someone suggested that free press rights should be exercised only with licenses issued by government.
 
http://articles.mcall.com/2011-10-02/news/mc-paul-carpenter-guns-20111002_1_gun-control-ceasefirepa-loophole
" FIREARMS STAND NEXT IN IMPORTANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF. THEY ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S LIBERTY TEETH AND KEYSTONE UNDER INDEPENDENCE."       George Washington

“OUR CONSTITUTION WAS MADE ONLY FOR A MORAL AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. IT IS WHOLLY INADEQUATE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ANY OTHER."           John Adams

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Lies To Prevent Multi-State Concealed Carry
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2011, 06:43:12 AM »
Amen!
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Lies To Prevent Multi-State Concealed Carry
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2011, 12:01:14 PM »
Don't know what to say , you covered it !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline mechanic

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Re: Lies To Prevent Multi-State Concealed Carry
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2011, 12:29:09 PM »
Don't know what to say , you covered it !

Yep.
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Offline saddlebum

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Re: Lies To Prevent Multi-State Concealed Carry
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2011, 01:45:53 PM »
Don't know what to say , you covered it !

I forgot to post the link to the article. I only copied and pasted the text.
I thought it was a good read..............
 
http://articles.mcall.com/2011-10-02/news/mc-paul-carpenter-guns-20111002_1_gun-control-ceasefirepa-loophole
" FIREARMS STAND NEXT IN IMPORTANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF. THEY ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S LIBERTY TEETH AND KEYSTONE UNDER INDEPENDENCE."       George Washington

“OUR CONSTITUTION WAS MADE ONLY FOR A MORAL AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. IT IS WHOLLY INADEQUATE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ANY OTHER."           John Adams

Offline Dixiejack

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Re: Lies To Prevent Multi-State Concealed Carry
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2011, 02:22:22 PM »
SADDLEBUM, you wrote a great piece.  Not meaning to sound ignorant, but what is the Florida Loophole?  I lived in Fla. up until about 15 years ago and had a carry permit.  I remember going to the Fla. Bureau of Investigation to apply for my permit (20 years ago).  Back then, it wasn't a go to a county judge for a permit.


Anyway, I have a CC permit in Georgia and would like to know what states honor it?  Would I be arrested in PA for toteing?


I hate to see these bleeding heart judges' opinions.  Go by the law. That is what they were written for.  If it took 13 shots to put Santana down then I'd say he was really cranked up on dope or maybe Hill needs some range practice. JMHO

Offline saddlebum

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Re: Lies To Prevent Multi-State Concealed Carry
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2011, 02:42:16 PM »
@Dixiejack
 
The security guard in the story lost his Pa. license so he went to Fl. to get one because it is honored in Pa..
So the gun grabbers will call it a "loophole" to make it sound more sinister and bad.
 
You should be able to look online to see where your type of CCW is honored.
" FIREARMS STAND NEXT IN IMPORTANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF. THEY ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S LIBERTY TEETH AND KEYSTONE UNDER INDEPENDENCE."       George Washington

“OUR CONSTITUTION WAS MADE ONLY FOR A MORAL AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. IT IS WHOLLY INADEQUATE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ANY OTHER."           John Adams

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Lies To Prevent Multi-State Concealed Carry
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2011, 10:36:40 AM »
@Dixiejack
 
The security guard in the story lost his Pa. license so he went to Fl. to get one because it is honored in Pa..

 
SO is that why so many yankees go South ? to get permits  ;D
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline mechanic

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Re: Lies To Prevent Multi-State Concealed Carry
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2011, 12:18:16 PM »
The "loophole" could not occur in Georgia, as the license is only issued by the probate judge in the county in which you reside.  When I went to renew mine, I first had to have my license changed to my current address before I could apply.  I don't know how Florida's is, but I wonder if it's all that easy?
 
Ben
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Offline powderman

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Re: Lies To Prevent Multi-State Concealed Carry
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2011, 01:18:43 PM »
SADDLEBUM. Good post Sir. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline Tom C.

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Re: Lies To Prevent Multi-State Concealed Carry
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2011, 03:36:53 AM »
The Full Faith and Credit section of the Constitution covers this. Can someone explain to me why multi-state reciprocity is even necessary? I accept the fact that politically it is, and am willing to fight to get it. I live in one of the few remaining states that continues to have “May Issue” and obtaining a state CCW here is next to impossible.

Article. IV.
Section. 1.
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
Tom

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Lies To Prevent Multi-State Concealed Carry
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2011, 03:54:16 AM »
Tom why do we need a permit to exercise a right granted in the second amend  ?
Because WE THE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN LAX !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !