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Offline silver surfer

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BC 45lc velocities?
« on: October 18, 2011, 12:22:52 PM »
  I was running through the Lee #2 Manual for some 45lc Ruger T/C loads and saw 1455 fps with a pistol.  What are y'alls experiences with the increase/decrease of velocities in the 20" rifle barrel?
  I am getting this for #1 Grandson for his first Christmas.  I love the .454 Casull idea, but have decided to wait (it's killing me) and experiment with the 45lc stuff first.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2011, 12:36:52 PM »
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Offline silver surfer

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2011, 12:51:59 PM »
WOW.  That is an impressive improvement.  That's what I was looking for, thanks Tim.
 
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Offline yukondog

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2011, 02:56:36 PM »
The best I get out of mine is at 1750 fps with 250 xtp and H-110.Good luck.
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Offline Spanky

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2011, 03:41:54 PM »
Quote from: yukondog on October 18, 2011, 02:56:36 PM
The best I get out of mine is at 1750 fps with 250 xtp and H-110.Good luck.

 
+1
I'm using the same setup with mine.
 
 
 
Spanky
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2011, 03:45:54 PM »
Might want to review these too.  ;)  I'm using the Reloader7 version from the bottom with great luck.  ;)
 
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

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Offline Dinny

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2011, 06:29:22 PM »
I have found that most published pistol velocities are around 150-250fps less than rifle velocities. I second the Paco Kelly data, I shoot a 335gr cast bullet at 1300fps using his data.




Thanks, Dinny
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Offline silver surfer

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2011, 07:25:05 AM »
"300 WFN 27/H110 46,000 CUP/for 92s 2180 fps " from the data source y'all provided.  Good God! That's 45-70 velocities!!!! :o   I would have never imagined that little round (perspectively) was so capable.  Out of that little rifle I do not see me target practicing with that much horse power, that would flat hurt.
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Offline Dinny

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2011, 01:50:38 PM »
Quote from: silver surfer on October 20, 2011, 07:25:05 AM
"300 WFN 27/H110 46,000 CUP/for 92s 2180 fps " from the data source y'all provided.  Good God! That's 45-70 velocities!!!! :o   I would have never imagined that little round (perspectively) was so capable.  Out of that little rifle I do not see me target practicing with that much horse power, that would flat hurt.


I was just conversing with another GBO member over the phone last night about this subject. The 44 Mag is a Magnum cartridge but so many people refuse to accept that the .45LC can also be a Magnum. We can load similar weight bullets in each with the same amount of powder in both cases. i.e 240gr bullet in 44 Mag with 22gr A2400 and a 250gr bullet in 45LC with 22gr A2400. Those both look, shoot and recoil like Magnums to me. ;) ::)




 Disclaimer: I'm really not trying to start a flame war. ;)




Thanks, Dinny
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2011, 02:42:59 PM »
You can only push the LC to a point, the cases are not strong enough to go beyond that.  That is why the 454 Casull and .460 were developed.  I personally would rather go to the stronger case and back down, than try and push the weaker case to the limit.

I like the 45LC, but I like the 45-70 better.  I have come close to buying a 45-70 BFR Revolver twice.  I have two H&R 45-70s, one Handi, and a Trapdoor.  Like them both.   
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2011, 03:15:58 PM »
Well, from my research, only original balloon head cases were any weaker than what we see in modern brass of either type.  I'm not saying to push it to the same necessarily, but it makes a lot more difference in what the firearm can handle.  My Blackhawk has ingested hundreds of 48K rounds with no issues and I've never had a single broken case.  Having a well shaped chamber w/ strong base platt means a lot more to what a piece of brass can handle generally.  The 14K maximum pressure is to be safe for ammuntion which may be put into an old or non-magnum strength firearm.  Read this if you disagree...
 
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline rdlange

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2011, 05:52:10 PM »
Dinny, was the 250 bullet in the 45 colt, lead or jacketed? Plain lead, or gas checked?

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Offline Dinny

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2011, 06:16:08 PM »
Quote from: rdlange on October 20, 2011, 05:52:10 PM
Dinny, was the 250 bullet in the 45 colt, lead or jacketed? Plain lead, or gas checked?

Be well...


A jacketed hollow point, XTP. Hornady #7 list 22gr of A2400 as just above max. However, I'm sure that's due to the bullet construction, it's not a mag bullet. With further research, I see they do offer a 240gr XTP-Mag that does go all the way up to 23.9gr for their max.


Perhaps a comparison of 240gr bullets would have been a better example. :-\  I don't see the brass as the limitation, but rather the weapon used to fire it. In my Handi rifle, I have shot many of the Magnum 45LC loads with no signs of wear and tear on the rifle.




Thanks, Dinny
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2011, 06:24:29 PM »
IMHO, solid head 44Mag vs 45Colt is not the limiting factor, the brass can only expand as far as the chamber will let it, same with backthrust. It is the platform (gun) that is the limiting factor.
An SB-2 well fit with a barrel of either should be able to achieve comparable pressures and velocities per projectile.
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Offline rdlange

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2011, 07:05:12 PM »
Trying to get an idea how much 2400 I can use with 250gr PB lead bullets before I get barrel leading.  Mine slugged to .453+ and I have alot of .454 lead. 

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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2011, 12:29:11 AM »
Quote from: tacklebury on October 20, 2011, 03:15:58 PM
Well, from my research, only original balloon head cases were any weaker than what we see in modern brass of either type.  I'm not saying to push it to the same necessarily, but it makes a lot more difference in what the firearm can handle.  My Black hawk has ingested hundreds of 48K rounds with no issues and I've never had a single broken case.  Having a well shaped chamber w/ strong base plate means a lot more to what a piece of brass can handle generally.  The 14K maximum pressure is to be safe for ammunition which may be put into an old or non-magnum strength firearm.  Read this if you disagree...
 
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

This is correct. The bigger reason Casull built a different case was to get a more efficient and hotter, small rifle primer to more effectively burn the large amounts of compressed powders he was using... Not so much for any increases in strength of the case. Any increases are more of a by product of this SR primer.
If you can manage to create a loading with enough pressures to surpass the std L.Colt cases strength, you have far surpassed any sane loading the firearm itself can with stand...
 
Now just to be clear, we are NOT speaking of the very old and very weak BALLOON HEAD CASES.
By and large new and recent entries into the 45 Long colt lineage will never see a balloon head case as they have been definitely for many, many years. BUT if you get any old range brass or old "hand me down brass" look them over closely. Balloon head cases are fairly easy to spot once you see a couple. The big tell tail sign, if you cannot see inside them, is the lack of a extractor groove above the rim. The extractor recess if you will. The balloon head exterior looks like a straight wall then a rim, no transition. Then inside has a much thinner web. Basically the same thickness as the case walls. This was done to get the utmost in capacity for the black powder the cartridge was designed around. I can post pics later if anyone would like to see the differences.
 
CW
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Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2011, 06:49:40 AM »
CW is correct, the old myth of the 45 colt case being weak stems from the ballon-head cases.  Modern cases are fine to run up the pressures to magnum levels, IF the firearm is capable of handling it.  I have run pressures above the Ruger/TC level in my 454 firearms and never streched any primer pockets in as many as 8 reloads, brass is still fine, no split cases ect.  If your chamber is tight and the weapon is capable of handling the pressure, you will have no issues at the higher levels listed for Ruger/TC.  DP
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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2011, 08:31:38 AM »
Quote from: rdlange on October 20, 2011, 07:05:12 PM
Trying to get an idea how much 2400 I can use with 250gr PB lead bullets before I get barrel leading.  Mine slugged to .453+ and I have alot of .454 lead.

I get no leading with standard pressure 250 grain lead 2400 loads in mine. Once I get up near the max Ruger-T/C loads for 250 grain lead it starts to lead the barrel.
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Offline silver surfer

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2011, 12:17:42 PM »
The more I read and research the more excited about this little rifle I get.  I have a few custom mods in mind, mostly asthetic, to (hopefully) get the grandson involved with it and the outdoors.
On the other hand... ;)  With some load work ups this would be a seriously B A D piece of hardware for stalk hunting the thick swamps!!!  Quick, accurate, and very lethal; what's not to love? ;D
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Offline silver surfer

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Re: BC 45lc velocities?
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2011, 11:54:25 AM »
I am truly excited about this new found info.   I was racking my brain (as new grand dads do) to come up with the "Perfect" gift for Christmas.  As fortune would have it I stumbled into this little jewel.
 Thank you folks for all your feedback.  Good advice is not something I waste.
 
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