Author Topic: remington copper solids (Read 3181 times)

.270 · « **on:** March 24, 2011, 08:38:26 PM »

Do these things expand? I shot my buck this year with my mossberg 500 using the 3'remmington copper solids. First shot it hurt him bad enough he did not even try to run anymore. I did put another one in him. He wasn't dead but he sure wasn't going anywhere. From what I could tell it just punched a hole fmj style.

At more then $3 a shot I expected a little better expansion.

I'd love to be able to find that slug and see what it looks like. I have to say that's the fastest I have ever seen a deer go down without a cns shot or breaking down both shoulders. If it wasn't $3+ a shot I think would use my shot gun alot more often.

blind ear · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2011, 05:55:01 AM »

Haven't read about the Remington CS but all that I have read about are for deep bone breaking penetration with little weight loss and that desigh lends it's self to little or no deformation/expansion. ear

maddogg · « **Reply #2 on:** March 26, 2011, 08:45:36 AM »

Here is a slug I recovered from a buck I harvested a few years ago. Who is now my Avatar.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll134/maddogg286/100_0853.jpg[/img]]

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll134/maddogg286/100_0856.jpg[/img]]

blind ear · « **Reply #3 on:** March 26, 2011, 12:29:50 PM »

That looks good, what was the range? 50 yards or less I would guess. ear

maddogg · « **Reply #4 on:** March 26, 2011, 03:27:56 PM »

Quote from: blind ear on March 26, 2011, 12:29:50 PM

That looks good, what was the range? 50 yards or less I would guess. ear

Ear,
About 75 yards.

Maddogg

blind ear · « **Reply #5 on:** March 26, 2011, 06:17:56 PM »

Worked perfectly. ear

LanceR · « **Reply #6 on:** March 29, 2011, 10:51:39 AM »

I've got a 12 gauge 1 ounce CS that looks just like maddogg's. It was recovered about 3" into the soil on the other side of a 140# dressed weight buck. I've shot, probably, 8 deer with the CSs and never had an issue.

When I compare the CS to the only Barnes Tipped MZ Expander I've ever recovered (5/8" ounce from a 20 gauge Savage slug gun) the CS is not as uniform an expansion and the CS has 5 petals as opposed to the MZX's 6. The Barnes would punch a little more fully cleared out wound channel but neither buck had the time to give me their opinion. I'd willingly use either slug again.

Both were downhill shots that hit about 2/3 of the way back the upper ribcage and exited down behind the off side front leg. Both were shot at 65-80 yards and both bullets pretty much liquefied the lung and heart tissue they transited.

Both bullets only lost a few grains in weight.

Lance

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #7 on:** March 29, 2011, 11:29:20 AM »

Ive never recovered a slug from a deer all have passed thru one from stem to stern .

gcrank1 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 01, 2011, 11:54:22 AM »

Doesnt the fact that 20ga. (.615ish), or 12 ga. (.725ish) are already way bigger dia. without expansion than most accepted big game rifle bullets expand to kind of nullify the need for slug expansion. With the much bigger frontal area and distribution of shock and it should be fine as is and if/when it expands so much the better.

LanceR · « **Reply #9 on:** April 02, 2011, 03:37:16 AM »

The 20 ga. Barnes Expander is a 273 grain bullet. I checked it's diameter after recovering it and seem to remember it was right at .500 or pretty close to that. The only CS I've recovered was a 12 ga. one that seems to be around .62 in diameter.

Bullets that don't expand have a tendency to do far less tissue damage and result in far less bleeding than ones that exhibit sharp edges and wide petals.

My biggest concern when a bullet impacts is that it keep tracking in the direction I intended and that is aided by uniform expansion and weight retention. The CS opens less uniformly than the Barnes but I've never felt that either was anything less than a stone cold killer and the exit wounds have been opposite the entry ones. I'll take the fat wound channel and clear blood trail from the through and through shot of a wide expanding bullet any day.

Lance

gcrank1 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 02, 2011, 05:21:52 AM »

I sure dont disagree with expansion being a good thing, but a big dang hole through anything is good too and dead is dead.
FWIW, note that I have my .727 Overkill; named such for a reason, and I wouldnt be disappointed in the performance if that hole was only .600ish either, expansion or not.

Muddly · « **Reply #11 on:** April 17, 2011, 08:29:31 AM »

Shot a couple deer with 20 ga Coppers. If memory serves the CS was designed so the nose expanded into 4 petals which were supposed to break off and form seconday projectiles while the base punched all the was through. The coppers I refer to were used about 16 years ago.I dont know if there's a new design. Killed like lightening though.

marine · « **Reply #12 on:** April 19, 2011, 05:24:30 AM »

i killed my first deer with remington copper solids. I shot him in the neck from about 10' away. Knocked him to the ground and he couldnt get back up. i put another through his heart and game over. the second was probably not neccesary but i dont like to see them suffer and i wasnt going to lose any meat between the two shots. I originally went wth those because of the full choke on my field barrel. Figured it would be a little easier on the gun than a foster. since that time i now use a slug barrel and rem sluggers for all my deer. I have never used copper solids again but wouldnt hesitate to do so.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 19, 2011, 06:48:35 AM »

Try the WW Foster slug, same price as the Sluggers, and they have been more accurate in every gun I've tried the two in. Federals are almost as good, but the Sluggers have been the least accurate in my guns, YMMV.

spikehorn · « **Reply #14 on:** April 20, 2011, 04:42:38 PM »

The one I recovered from a 4 point I shot looked pretty much like Maddogs, And at 60 yards I heard the deers shoulder snap when he got hit. I also shot a 5 point that was quartering to me in the brisket. It expanded and tore up both lungs and the heart. he dropped where I shot him.

Delkal · « **Reply #15 on:** April 20, 2011, 04:54:02 PM »

The ORIGINAL Remington 12 ga copper slugs had 4 petals which were designed to break off when hit and the main slug would always go thru. They were devastating on deer! Each smaller petal would spread apart 6 inches and leave an "X" a foot wide on the far side of the inner ribcage. One shot stops with an exit wound and a big wound channel. They were perfect!. The only downside was that you had to find the petals before you cut up (especially grind) the deer. These were sold the first 2-3 years after they were introduced.

Remington pulled them for some reason and now only make the new style Antigunners?

Anyway I still have about 30 of them that should last me a while (You only need one per deer)

LanceR · « **Reply #16 on:** April 21, 2011, 02:57:38 AM »

Quote from: Delkal on April 20, 2011, 04:54:02 PM

Each smaller petal would spread apart 6 inches and leave an "X" a foot wide on the far side of the inner ribcage. One shot stops with an exit wound and a big wound channel. They were perfect!. The only downside was that you had to find the petals before you cut up (especially grind) the deer.

Remington pulled them for some reason and now only make the new style Antigunners?

Delkal, I think Remington changed them because they saw the disintegration as a defect.

If the early ones left that big of a mess I expect they didn't change it because of anti-gunners; they changed it because of anti-meat-wasting hunters. $:-\$

Anytime I have to hunt for fragments of a bullet I deem that a failed projectile. I'm willing to pay for a bullet that looses almost no metal on it's journey yet still expands to 2x diameter or so.

Based on the attitude the game is oriented, I pick my shots based on where the would channel will be and the specific effects I expect. I want a fast expanding projectile that stays together, penetrates well in both flesh and bone, and goes straight through. I often hunt in rain and snow and want the exit wound to help in tracking. It's very rarely needed but I still want it.

The Copper Solid and Barnes bullets do those things very well. I'd think of the kind of fragmentation you describe as a defect, not an asset. That leads a lot more meat damage than needed with some shots.

I guess it's another example of the "big tent" we all gather under here. What one guy wants from a projectile is very different from another guy even though the purpose is the same. Of course the neat thing is that they are both perfectly correct, too...

Lance

Delkal · « **Reply #17 on:** April 21, 2011, 07:19:00 AM »

The original 4 "petals" were much smaller than the main slug. The slug always went through, I never recovered one. This gave a large exit hole and in no way was a bullet failure, it was controlled. The petals didn't waste any meat with a chest shot. They would expand in the internal organs and would rarely penetrate the far side. Plus they were going slow and the wounds were more like a cut. They were like hitting a deer with a slug followed by a couple .22's for good measure.

maddogg · « **Reply #18 on:** April 21, 2011, 03:06:33 PM »

I read somewhere that the orig. copper solids were replaced with the New and Improved copper solids. The new ones were made out of softer copper so they would retain their weight and not break apart. The newer ones have a larger hollow-point.

luckydawg13 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 24, 2011, 02:31:11 AM »

i have shot #5 deer with them my remington 870 just loves them exit hole has always been
big

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 13, 2011, 06:41:46 PM »

I have ben using copper solids for many years, and the expand like the pic maddogg posted. At least the ones I found.

BBF · « **Reply #21 on:** September 14, 2011, 06:39:01 AM »

Quote from: LanceR on April 02, 2011, 03:37:16 AM

.....................Bullets that don't expand have a tendency to do far less tissue damage and result in far less bleeding than ones that exhibit sharp edges and wide petals.

......................
.............................. I'll take the fat wound channel and clear blood trail from the through and through shot of a wide expanding bullet any day.

Lance

I'll Second that !

cjrjck · « **Reply #22 on:** October 07, 2011, 06:07:11 PM »

Quote from: gcrank1 on April 01, 2011, 11:54:22 AM

Doesnt the fact that 20ga. (.615ish), or 12 ga. (.725ish) are already way bigger dia. without expansion than most accepted big game rifle bullets expand to kind of nullify the need for slug expansion. With the much bigger frontal area and distribution of shock and it should be fine as is and if/when it expands so much the better.

Just ask Veral Smith in his own reloading section. Big fat meplat, hard cast lead alloy (or solid copper in this case) equals good sized wound channel, big time penetration, and dead game.