Oxpho Blue?

[JWP58]

So im looking to reblue my new-to-me 1898 Krag (dont worry its been sporterized) and i'm leaning towards Oxpho blue, just because of the great things i've heard about it.
 
My question is, does the paste give a deeper blue color? Or should i just use the liquid?
 
Should i take the metal down to the white? or just clean it real well and blue over whats still there?
 
Thanks.

[Goatwhiskers]

Talk to the techs w/Brownells, they have many good pointers.  I have done a couple over the original blue, worked acceptably well.  Polishing will work better.  I'm sure you know that Oxpho applies a phosphate type material, so in my opinion is better than most other cold blues.  Make sure the metal is CLEAN, I use Mean Green, same as simple green without the scent.  Warm the metal with a heat gun till mildly uncomfortable to touch, makes the chemical activate better.  Apply with a wad of degreased 3/0 or 4/0 steel wool in even strokes till the color is even.  I always wash the finished metal with clean water, dry with compressed air, and dip in ATF, then set aside to drain.  Makes a dark blue that wears well.  Give it a try, I think you'll like the result.  Not as good as a proper acid blue, but a lot less work.  Goatwhiskers the Elder
 
Edit: I do use the liquid, never tried the paste.

[gunnut69]

GW is right on most points. OxphoBlue is a cold parkerizing material and once cured is quite tough. It usually won't get as dark as some of the other cold blues but it wears 10 times better than any I've tried. I clean the metal and polish with 320 paper and burnish with steel wool (00 or 000). After each coat of the OxphoBlue burnish with 00 steel wool to clear the surface for the next coat..  Always apply with the metal warm and when its dark enough after the burnishing step apply ATF or WD40. I usually use the WD40 and let it set on the meatl wet for a day or so. This allows the WD40 to start oxidizing and to soak into the metal pores as much as possible.. After the 24 hours in WD40 to cure the finish I wipe carefully with a sodt cloth and reassemble the gun.. I you want to step up and bit you can do a rust blue with a single tank or Brownells IM bluing. Wither works about the same and produces a really great result with just a bit more effort( and a hot water tank..). They are all considerably cheaper to get going than the hot salt tanks used commercially. Most of the commercial operations use a caustic salt material (similar to lye) to produce the black coating on the steel. Not one I know of uses an acid based material.. The first muzzle loader I built I colored the steel with sweat. Rubbed on the heated metal it creates an even coat of rust which was steel wooled smooth and the next coat applied. When completely dark brown in color the metal was heated uncomfortably hot and beeswax melted on to the surface. This was then rubbed vigously and the finish produced is still there today and not even the edges of the flats have shined.. And that was in 1976..or 77.. CRS strikes again... If I had boiled or heated the metal a bit hotter with a torch The red rust (ferris oxide would have been changed to black rust, ferric oxide which is much tougher). The brown I applied all those years ago is still beautiful today..

[JWP58]

Thanks for all the info guys.
 
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=19&t=261933
 
After reading that and seeing the results, i think i'm going to use the paste. I'll probably do the barrel all at the same time, and then do the action.

[quickdtoo]

Go for the creme, it's easier to get an even finish on larger parts.  If you have a hot water tank(made mine from a section of galvanized gutter! ), I'd highly recommend Belgian Blue from Brownells.  http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=7604/product/BELGIAN_BLUE

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,132914.msg1098502266.html#msg1098502266

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,233127.msg1099315324.html#msg1099315324

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,230862.msg1099300032.html#msg1099300032

[Goatwhiskers]

"No one I know uses an acid based material".  Just FYI, I was referring to the old time acid rust process used on some custom rifles and on double shotguns as the hot caustic method would destroy the soft solder used to assemble the barrels and ribs.  It involves a mixture of nitric and hydrochloric acids (measured amounts), plain iron nails dissolved in the mixture, and diluted to proper volume with water.  The metal is hand polished, cleaned, and a coat of the mixture wiped on and allowed to sit--about 12 hours--till a fine rust has formed.  The parts are boiled in water, the rust carded off with soft wire brushes, and the process is repeated, getting darker with each coat until you get a very dark rich blue, which I will say wears like nothing you ever saw.  I've done it on several guns for myself thru the years, but most people today don't want to pay the cost of hand labor.  Here endeth the lesson.  Goatwhiskers the Elder

[JWP58]

Just ordered a 4oz bottle of Oxpho blue. I bought some 0000 steel wool to apply it with. I plan on cleaning up the metal with 600 grit sand paper (with a little oil on the paper) the clean with alcohol, or i might just use naval jelly and polish with the paper. I'll heat it with a blow dryer or heat gun.
 
Got a question. When applying the paste with steel wool, what motion should i use? Straight strokes? Shoe shine motion? Do i need to use pressure?
 
Thanks ahead of time fellas.

[Skeezix]

I use straight strokes along the long axis of the barrel and receiver.  And you made a good choice getting the gel.  I've had much better results getting a good even coating with it than the liquid, ESPECIALLY when you're going over the top of old blueing like you are.

[JWP58]

I use straight strokes along the long axis of the barrel and receiver.  And you made a good choice getting the gel.  I've had much better results getting a good even coating with it than the liquid, ESPECIALLY when you're going over the top of old blueing like you are.

Negative. I picked up some naval jelly to strip the old bluing off. Then im going to use 600grit paper to polish everything up.
 
Thanks for the info and encouraging words about the paste. I'll be sure to post pics when i'm done.

[Austin from NC]

Do you need to degrease the steel wool? It is full of oil.

       Austin

[quickdtoo]

Complete instructions for all of the bluing products that Brownells sells can be found on their website, scroll down to page 20 for the Oxpho Blue.

Tim

http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/learn/Inst-113%20Bluing%20Booklet.pdf

[gunnut69]

I don't degrease anything when working with OxphoBlue. That's one of the beauties of the product. It works just fine even through a light coating of oil. I haven't had a lot of luck with the creme but perhaps the steel wool applicator is the way to go?? Remember to not contaminate the bottle when applying the product. Use a seperate container for the matrial you are using. Since I use the liquid I use a plastic bottle with a snorkle type applicator that allows a few drops to be deposited just where needed and ladies makeup patches clamped in a cheap forcepts to spread the material and keep the surface wet as long as the color is improving. Then dry it off and burnish with steel wool (00). Reapply as needed..

[quickdtoo]

You'll get a much more consistent finish if you degrease first, that includes the steel wool. 

Tim

PROFESSIONAL OVERALL BLUING TECHNIQUE
The following method of applying Oxpho-Blue was developed for
overall bluing of a gun, and is particularly designed to give you uniform,
even color, no streaking, and a top-quality blue job when you
are finished.
Things you will need are:
OXPHO-BLUE DISH - A heavy, shallow, small, ceramic or glass/pyrex
dish or cup is ideal, as it won’t tip over easily. Plastics are okay, polyethylene
preferred. Used to prevent contaminating your supply bottle
of Oxpho-blue with repeated dippings of the Applicator Pads.
COTTON APPLICATOR PADS - Make several cotton pads about 2"
x 2" square, like a cotton makeup pad, or one-fourth of one of our
gunsmith’s Cleaning Pads for applying Oxpho-Blue.
CLEAN STEEL WOOL - Clean Steel Wool is made by removing the
protective oil applied by the manufacturer to keep the Steel Wool
from rusting during transit and storage. Since the oil will contaminate
and possibly cause the Oxpho-Blue blue to streak or discolor, it
is imperative to use only Clean Steel Wool when doing an entire gun.
For Oxpho-Blue, you will need to clean only with #00 Steel Wool.
Clean the Steel Wool by soaking in a TCE bath. The Steel Wool
must be completely dry before using with Oxpho-Blue.
BROWN PAPER TOWELS - The kind found in gas station or high
school restrooms. Tough, very rough, come folded in thirds, and will
take the skin off your hands and elbows. Kitchen paper towels, the
slick brown ones on a roll, or anything soft will not work nearly as
well; maybe not at all.
STEP-BY-STEP TECHNIQUE
1) PREPARE THE SURFACE OF THE METAL to be blued by polishing
to the desired grit level, sand blasting, bead blasting, wire wheel
brushing, etc. Do not polish the surface too bright, as the process of
applying Oxpho-Blue produces a bright surface and the action of
the chemical will be better if the surface is slightly matte in texture
before starting. A 140 grit Polish-O-Ray surface is fine; do not go finer
than 240 grit Polish-O-Ray.
2) CLEAN PARTS THOROUGHLY by suspending them in a fresh
909 Cleaning Solution, or in a soaking bath of TCE or similar chlorinated-
hydrocarbon solvent. When trying to get a perfect, no-streak
finish on an entire gun, the gun must be absolutely clean and oil-free
before beginning. For speed and convenience, we prefer soaking the
gun and parts in TCE to setting up and running a 909 Cleaning
Solution for the 1-gun-at-a-time being done with Oxpho-Blue.
3) POUR OUT A SMALL AMOUNT OF OXPHO-BLUE from your
supply bottle into the Oxpho-Blue Dish. Take one of the Cotton
Applicator Pads and saturate it in the Oxpho-Blue, but not so liberally
that the Oxpho-Blue runs on the surface of the metal when you
apply the pad to the gun.
4) APPLY THE OXPHO-BLUE TO THE SURFACE OF THE GUN, using
long strokes, and being very sure that you don’t let the Oxpho-Blue
solution run. Turn the gun as you apply to help prevent runs - which
turn into streaks.
5) WATCH THE SURFACE OF THE GUN CAREFULLY after you get
the Oxpho-Blue applied, and the surface of the gun is holding as
much liquid as you can apply without runs.
6) WIPE DRY JUST BEFORE THE OXPHO-BLUE DRIES ON
THE GUN. As you watch, the liquid Oxpho-Blue appears to thicken
up and turn a messy, yukky, black color, and seems to be about ready
to dry. Just before you think it is going to dry, immediately wipe the
entire surface of the gun dry with a clean, soft, dry cloth, using long
fast strokes and doing everything you possibly can to eliminate the
possibility of streaks. Some streaks are bound to develop, but you can
take them out later on in the procedure. Do Not let the Oxpho-Blue
dry on the metal surface during the first pass.
7) WHEN WIPED/RUBBED DRY, BURNISH WITH #00 Dry, Clean
Steel Wool. Once you have the gun rubbed dry, wait a few more minutes
for it to air dry thoroughly. Then, with a small piece of #00 Clean
Steel Wool, burnish the entire gun so you have removed all traces of
any blue color that might have developed during the first application
of Oxpho-Blue. What you will have is a grayish-looking, bright
surface. If you put on another heavy coat - or a hundred heavy coats
- you will end up with nothing more than the same grayish-looking,
first coat. Each heavy coat takes off the previous coat and establishes
its own surface. So, once you have the metal all-over gray, bright and
shiny, the trick is to blacken or “color” this first heavy coat that you
have applied, and not put on another coat so heavy that you get back
to the underlying gun metal.
8. APPLY THE “COLORING” COAT OF OXPHO-BLUE. Dump out
the dirty Oxpho-Blue from your Oxpho-Blue Dish and refill with a
small amount of fresh Solution from your supply bottle. Tear off a
small piece (about the size of your thumb) of one of the new Applicator
Pads and dampen it in the Oxpho-Blue, then squeeze out the pad
thoroughly. You want the pad just damp enough that when you rub
it on the surface of the gun, the surface stays damp behind the pad,
but not wet. Lightly stroke the damp pad over the gun, watching to
see that the grayish-looking surface turns black evenly as you wipe
over it.
9) BURNISH ENTIRE GUN WITH #00 Dry Clean Steel Wool. With
dry #00 Clean Steel Wool, very lightly go over the entire gun, being
sure the black color is even and there are no streaks.
10) APPLY LIGHTER, SECOND “COLORING” COAT. You can apply
a much, much lighter second coat of Oxpho-Blue to the gun if you
wish. It is difficult to prevent streaking and uneven colors in this
second coat.
11) REMOVING STREAKS; DARKENING LIGHT AREAS.
Occasionally, you will get streaks or small areas which will be lighter
in color; or once in a very great while, a gun, for reasons unknown,
refuses to take a good color. This can happen when the surface has
become “pacified” for one reason or another. If you find spots that did
not color, or did not color evenly:
1) Position the gun or part as rigidly as possible so it can be
rubbed with considerable pressure without bouncing around.
2) Make a pad from a small piece of #00 Dry, Clean, Steel Wool
about half the size of your thumb. Before using it, squeeze the
pad flat between finger and thumb.
3) Slightly dampen the #00 Clean Steel Wool pad with Oxpho-
Blue. Wet it only enough so that when the pad is used, it will
just dampen the surface of the gun.
4) Take the dampened, Clean, Steel Wool Pad in one hand, and a
well-crumpled Brown Paper Towel in the other hand. First rub
the surface you wish to darken with the Oxpho-Blue-dampened,
Clean, Steel Wool Pad, and then immediately burnish the
dampened spot dry with the Brown Paper Towel.
5) If the area is large, or you are doing an entire gun, do only a
small 1" x 3" area at a time. Experience will tell you how large
an area to attempt, but always keep it fairly small. You can
repeat this operation over the entire surface of the gun if you
wish, or on as many spots as you find. Done overall, it gives a
good, even, lustrous black finish with no visible overlapping.
12) RINSE GUN THOROUGHLY IN RUNNING WATER, then shake,
air blow or lightly wipe dry. After the blue job has set for a few hours
or overnight, oil with Brownells Water Displacing Oil, Pro-Tek Oil, or
a good, non-exotic gun oil. Do Not use any of the “Exotic Wonder Oils”,
for they cause the same problems with new Oxpho-Blue as they do
with new Oxynate No. 7 blue jobs. [See page 9, #2.] As time passes,
the Oxpho-Blue finish will darken up, seemingly all on its own.
13) LET THE NEW BLUE “CURE” OVERNIGHT, after oiling. The
next day, wipe off any excess oil with a soft cloth and reassemble the
gun.
14) COLOR BLENDING. When you simply cannot get the overall
uniform color that you want, having tried all of the techniques given
above, we suggest you use the “Color Blending” technique used for
Oxynate No. 7 bluing jobs. [See page 12, #17) for details.] This has
worked well for us in the past.

[gunnut69]

The tech guys at Brownells say that they recommend claening with alchohol or some similar process but that they product will still work quite well thru light oil.. I thought perhaps a refornulation had taken place but it's just another methodology for application. I'll try it and see how it works out...

[JWP58]

edited

[gunnut69]

Well it looks pretty good!! OxphoBlue has really been the best cold blue I've tried, regardless of technique.

[mannyrock]

 
 
Hey Guys,
 
   You have posted some great info on Oxpho.  However, I have a few questions please.
 
    1.  Do you have to polish (or chemically remove) all of the old bluing off of the barrel before you can use the Oxpho?
 
    2.  What the heck is TCE.  Can you get it from Brownell's?  Can't I just spray "Gunscrubber"  on it about 5 times?  This is an amazing degreaser, that evaporates on its own accord and needs no wiping.
 
    3.  How do you make a soaking bath of TCE for a barrel?  If you have to fill up a large vat or tray, then I'm guessing that the vat or tray is going to cost some pretty good money, as well as the cost of the TCE.  For a novice, would all of this cost more than just taking the stripped and scrubbed barrel in and having it reblued by a gunsmith?  (I think I could polish the reblued barrel myself, so all the smith would do would be to put it in the bluing tank for a few weeks.)
 
  Thanks very much for your advice.
 
Mannyrock
 
 

[mannyrock]

 
Guys,
 
   P.S.- Another question.
 
   I see that the gentleman who posted the reblue pictures used alcohol to clean the barrel before bluing.  But, the bottle in his picture shows Isoprofenal Rubbing Alcohol.   
 
   I believe that this alcohol actually has water mixed into it (up to 30% water), so that it won't burn your skin when you rub it on yourself.  This water will actually put a tiny layer of rust back on the barrel before you reblue.
 
  Am I right?   Should you use "de-natured" alcohol?

Thanks, Mannyrock

[parkergunshop]

Mannyrock,
TCE comes in spray cans you spray it on the metal to be degreased and let it evaporate off before applying the finish.  You don't need a tank to use TCE at all.
You can get TCE from Brownells.
Manny a reblue or Parkerizing job by a gunsmith will probably run you over $200.00.   It only takes a few minutes to blue or Parkerize metal in the blueing tank.   The metal prep is the time consuming part.   
Note: a black iron tank is used for the blueing solution, a Stainless Steel tank for Parkerizing.
 

[quickdtoo]

TCE =  Trichloroethylene

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichloroethylene

[mannyrock]

OK Guys,
 
   I did some Hazmat report research.  Birchwood Casey's "Gunscrubber", in a spray can, is TCE.  So, I have that covered.
 
  I guess that in order to clean up the batch of steel wool before using it, I can spray it with the TCE.
 
Mannyrock