bh209 confusion

[hornsurgeon]

ok i've never shot a ML except with pellets before.  i'm now switching to bh209.  i already have the replacement plug coming.  the question i have is with Bh209 though.  when you guys say you are using, say, 80gr of bh209, is that 80gr by weight or by volume?

[bikerbeans]

horn,

BH209 is by volume, like all the BP substitutes that I know about.  Just get a brass BP powder measure and set it for 80 grains.  If you are shooting 300 grain or less sabots or bullets I would start @ 80 grains.  Heavier bullets (350 to 450+) I would start lower, say 70 grains.  The 50 cal. huntsman has a max. load of 100 grains.  Most folks find that 80 grains seems to work very well with a 250 to 300 grain sabot.   Good luck and enjoy.

BB

[hornsurgeon]

thnks for the info. i've got the 300 fpb's and was planning to try 75-90 gr of bh209 when i get my new plug.  i've read great things about 80gr all over the web.

[Busta]

thnks for the info. i've got the 300 fpb's and was planning to try 75-90 gr of bh209 when i get my new plug.  i've read great things about 80gr all over the web.

Get you some 350 FPB's and 80 gr VOLUME of BH209 and I dare you to find a more accurate load out of the Huntsman. I have several one hole groups with that load from 1/4 to 1/2 MOA in my Huntsman. I must add, that it was not with the standard OEM breech plug, as it is not reliable with BH209.

If you want the weight equivalent to the volume loads of BH209, multiply VOLUME by 0.7 for WEIGHT.

100 gr VOLUME x 0.7 = 70 gr WEIGHT.
90 gr VOLUME x 0.7 = 63 gr WEIGHT.
80 gr VOLUME x 0.7 = 56 gr WEIGHT.
70 gr VOLUME x 0.7 = 49 gr WEIGHT.

[bikerbeans]

Busta,

Do you load BH209 by volume or weight?

BB

[bhhad25]

Is the huntsman rated for only 100 grains? I've read somewhere that it was 150. And if it is only 100, does that mean 85 gr of bh209 is the max?

[bikerbeans]

The first Sticky is this forum has the load data from both a Huntsman and a Sidekick manual.  Shows 100 grain for the Huntsman and 150 grain Max. for the sidekick.

BB

[Brewster]

Black powder charges are generally given as volumetric equivalents, rather than weight.  I've played with the BH209 conversion factor from volume to weight and have found it close enough.

The charge numbers (grains by volume) in my Huntsman manual are optimized loads, not maximums.  I prefer to shoot heavier, full bore diameter cast bullets rather than saboted rounds for hunting.  Nothing wrong with sabots, though.  I've found thru experimentation, that 75-85 grains of bh209 under my wad and .50 cal 460 grain bullet gives outstanding consistency (and field results at 25-100 yds).  I also found that jacking up the powder charge doesn't give me anything more than a more quickly emptied wallet and a stiffer shoulder.  I shoot the same load of 75-85 grains by volume with Pyrodex P with similar results and conclusions.

[Busta]

Busta,

Do you load BH209 by volume or weight?

BB

I have done it both ways, and to be honest, I can not see any benefit to weighing out the charges. If you throw your charges exactly the same way each time, you will have consistent charges, and very little variation in weight. I overfill my measure, then tap the same amount of times, then cut off level with the top.

Is the huntsman rated for only 100 grains? I've read somewhere that it was 150. And if it is only 100, does that mean 85 gr of bh209 is the max?

Actually, in 2005 they started making 26" barrels for the Huntsman with the 5/8" breech plug, and I am pretty sure they have the same recommended loads as the Sidekick. I was hoping that someone with one of the 2005 or newer Huntsmans would at least confirm this in that post above. The loads are just recommended loads, not maximum loads, and they also refer you to the powder manufacturer. It doesn't state actual maximum loads in my Huntsman manual dated 2/02. But as Brewster has stated, with the heavier conicals 75 to 85 grains is optimum in my experience as well.

Also, not all powder measures are created equally, and can vary as much as 5 - 10 grains in a 100 gr VOLUME charge. My Volume to WEIGHT multiplier for my favorite powder measure is 0.69, instead of Western's 0.7 multiplier. So if you do weigh charges, make sure to figure out YOUR personal multiplier from YOUR VOLUME. Measure out 10 100 gr charges by VOLUME, weigh them each, then figure out the average. It could be anywhere from 65 - 72 grains in WEIGHT from my experiences with different powder measures, different lot #'s, and at different humidity levels. If you don't, you may find that you may be shooting more or less than your favorite load.


ALL LOADS LISTED BELOW ARE BY VOLUME!!!

Some 350 gr Hornady FPB loads out of the Huntsman. NOT with OEM breech plug.









Some other conical loads out of the Huntsman. NOT with OEM breech plug.

[gcrank1]

FWIW, typical reloading powder dispensing measures all throw 'by volume', as verified 'by weight'.
As said, common BP measures vary by the graduations marked and by the F grade used, but bulky, 'low pressure' BP is forgiving of that.
So, if you want to use a 'smokeless type measure',
Set a BP measure for the amount you want, weight it, note it, then set your dispensing measure to throw it.
Works set there for the BP substitues 'by volume' too. 

[bhhad25]

I called H&R customer service and was told my huntsman barrel is rated for 150 grains of powder. I don't plan on going that high, but thought id pass along the info I got.

[bikerbeans]

bhhad,

thanks for the info on the Huntsman from the Mother Ship.  FWIW i have launched a 300 grain sabot over 120 grains of BH209 out of an unmodified Rossi 50 MZ.   I have the scope divot in my forehead to prove this.   For this reason I doubt I will every try more than 90 grains of blackhorn in my Huntsman.  It seems to me that the increase in recoil with this stuff is not proportional to the increase in charge weight.

BB

[Busta]

I called H&R customer service and was told my huntsman barrel is rated for 150 grains of powder. I don't plan on going that high, but thought id pass along the info I got.

I think since this thread is about BH209, that 120 gr VOLUME is the max load per Western. 120 gr VOLUME of BH209 would be the equivalent to 150 gr V of Black Powder or Pyrodex.

BB,

I think the Huntsman/Sidekick rifles handle recoil very well compared to several other rifles. I have never had my bell rung with my H&R/NEF rifles shooting any loads. I do try to get scopes with around 4" of eye relief though, and some of the scopes with only a little over 3" might be a different story.

I was shooting a test rifle a couple years ago, a CVA Kodiak Mag, and that thing rung my bell every shot with only 100 gr BH209 and a 300 gr saboted bullet. No thanks!

Some rifles absorb the recoil, and others beat you up, I own 13 muzzleloaders, none that beat me up.

[NatureNick]

I just started using BH209 in my stainless Sidekick.  Wow!  I'm hitting a 2" Orange Peel target at 200 yards so regularly it got boring, and now the same is happening at 300 yards with a 5-1/2" Orange Peel.  Thank you all for sharing your experiences, you really saved me a ton of trial and error.  This is a SS/synthetic H&R Sidekick for which I paid $200 on clearance, free shipping, from a "foremost outfitter."  I've added a Warne rail-type steel base, Warne QD steel rings, a Leupold UltimateSlam 3-9x40mm, Hubbard ramrod, Choat Monte Carlo stock (which I shortened for my stumpy arms), LimbSaver recoil pad, Fox Tactical cheek pad butt pouch, an aftermarket breech plug that doesn't need the primer carriers, a Quake Claw carrying sling and some Butler Creek covers on ths scope.  My wife thinks I'm nuts to have spent 3 times what the gun cost on aftermarket mods alone, but with BH209 I'm getting a single ragged hole at 100 yards so it's money well spent.  I've had .30 caliber rifles that wouldn't do that for me!  Anyway, CCI 209 magnum primers, 100 grains (volume) of Blackhorn, and a 300 grain Hornady SST-ML in a Harvester Crush Rib sabot seems to be a great combination.  I have a second backup breech plug same as the primary, so if anyone wants about 30 of the orange H&R primer carriers plus a lightly-used SS 5/8" breech plug & removal tool, I'm happy to send it to you, just give me an address by PM.  I don't want anything for it, I'm just too conservation-minded to throw all that stuff away when someone might be happy using it.

[bikerbeans]

NN,
 
Congrats on your upscale Sidekick!  That is very impressive accuracy.  I love seeing BH209 converts, hopefully if enough folks switch to this powder it will come down in price a little.  $3/oz for a propellant is pretty steep but it do work well.
 
BB