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Author Topic: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag  (Read 1729 times)

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Offline Jason F

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blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« on: October 22, 2011, 04:20:24 PM »
Anyone ever tried this powder in these calibers for rifle loads
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Offline anachronism

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2011, 07:25:35 PM »
I've used Blue Dot in 44 mag revolver loads. It worked okay, if you like the loud flamethrower thing. There are better powders out there for either caliber. At one time it used to be fashionable to see how much Blue Dot you could cram in a 44 mag case. The thinking was that you couldn't get enough Blue Dot in the case to blow the gun up. This theory was proven wrong many times over. Allow me to rephrase, there are much better powders out there for either caliber. Especially if heavy bullets are used.     
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Offline Larry Gibson

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2011, 12:08:59 PM »
Actually Blue dot is a very good powder in the 44 magnum case (don't know about the 445 Super).  I have pressure tested (Oehler M43 in a Contender barrel) Blue Dot with 240 jacketed and 250 gr cast and find it performs very well up to 17.3 gr.  As always start lower and work up.  Blue Dot does not like compression and higher charges gave less pressure and the large "loud flamthrower" muzzle blast that anachronism speaks of.  I regularly shoot the 17.3 gr load in my Ruger FTBH with 6 1/2" barrel uder the RCBS 44-250-SWC-K cast bullet.  Velocity in the Ruger is 1413 fps and psi in the Contender with the 17.3 gr load is 33,200 psi(M43) with 1544 fps.  The ES/SDs were very good for magnum level loads.  The SAAMI MAP for the .44 Magnum is 36,000 psi(Piezo).  Accuracy out of both the Contender and the Ruger is excellent.  Accuracy out of a 16" M64 was so so as the velocity was over 1650 fps which was a bit much for the cast bullets used (alloy was soft being WW+2% tin and AC'd). A GC'd cast bullet would be wanted if max performance loads were used in the rifle. 
 
Larry Gibson   
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Offline GLShooter

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2011, 07:41:05 AM »
I've shot a ton of BD in my 44 Mag revolvers over the years. I don't own a rifle in it but I do like the powder. Not as harsh on recoil like H110 but for my 240 grainers it is my goto powder.
 
Greg
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Offline mdi

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2011, 09:29:35 AM »
I like Bluedot in my .44 Magnum carbine. I bounce around with powders in my .44s using Unique, 2400, Bluedot, WC820, True Blue, and on occation W231 for round ball and some sub-loads. I have a Puma that seems to like Ranchdog's 265 gr. RNFP GC, with xlox over about 16 gr. of Bluedot...
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Offline Jason F

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2011, 03:46:13 PM »
Do you think it would be safe to work up a blue dot load for the 445 sm
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Offline GLShooter

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2011, 04:39:43 AM »
Quote from: Jason F on October 24, 2011, 03:46:13 PM
Do you think it would be safe to work up a blue dot load for the 445 sm

No reason not to. The Blue Dot is used in the big revolver cartridges. You might call the powder company. They may well have some info worked up. Hodgdon is like that on a lot of stuff.
 
Greg
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Offline Jason F

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2011, 05:18:09 AM »
i just sent them an email asking for info.,has anyone ever heard the method of case volume times 60 percent and that would be max load for that caliber,just seen it on another web site and i never heard of it before
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Offline GLShooter

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2011, 05:25:39 AM »
Quote from: Jason F on October 28, 2011, 05:18:09 AM
i just sent them an email asking for info.,has anyone ever heard the method of case volume times 60 percent and that would be max load for that caliber,just seen it on another web site and i never heard of it before

60 % of case volume in weight?  Case volume being measured with what? Water, H110 748?  Powder type being what?  A generalized formula like that will get you a visit to your local gunsmith in a best scenario and the local ER in a worst one.
 
Rifles seem to do well at 90% + on volume of filling but that is not hard and fast and no particular weight of the propellant can be chosen due to the burning rate variations. Pistols sometimes do well with minimal loading density, ala Bullseye, but many like 2400 , H110/296 need lots to work well.
 
Greg
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Offline Jason F

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2011, 08:11:05 AM »
That was just for blue dot powder ,measured in grains
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Offline Jason F

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2011, 08:14:02 AM »
I would never try it with any powder that would be crazy
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Offline GLShooter

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2011, 09:04:51 AM »
Quote from: Jason F on October 28, 2011, 08:11:05 AM
That was just for blue dot powder ,measured in grains

My Blue Dot loads take up more than 60% of case volume with what I have shot. I've used it in 357 and 44 Mag quite a bit over the years.
 
Then one other issue is the bullet weight. A "hot" 180 grain load that is safe with that formula might be fine but when you stick a 240 or 300 grainer on top you will be treading on very thin, rapidly melting ice.
 
Greg
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Offline Jason F

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2011, 10:45:08 AM »
Got an email back from alliant they told me blue dot powder is to fast of a powder for the 445sm
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Offline geezerbiker

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2011, 12:14:29 PM »
What powders did they recommend for the .445SM?

Tony
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Offline GLShooter

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2011, 12:44:50 PM »
Quote from: geezerbiker on October 31, 2011, 12:14:29 PM
What powders did they recommend for the .445SM?

Tony

I am interested in that also.
 
Greg
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2011, 12:53:36 PM »
Alliant doesn't appear to have data for the 445SM, but Accurate, Hornady and Hodgdon do, but only for pistols.

Tim

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeList.aspx?gtypeid=1

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp
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Offline GLShooter

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2011, 01:09:29 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on October 31, 2011, 12:53:36 PM
Alliant doesn't appear to have data for the 445SM, but Accurate, Hornady and Hodgdon do, but only for pistols.

Tim

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeList.aspx?gtypeid=1

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

 
If it is safe to run in the pistol a rifle shouldn't have an issue as long as the right bullets are chosen.
 
Greg
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2011, 01:15:57 PM »
With both my 280 lyman cast, and the 330gr LBT I cast, the loads listed in the Lyman manual, are pretty stout out of my DW. Just a couple tenths under max, works well with W296 and H4227. Not sure what rifle your loading for, but you might want to just stick with the loads they worked out for handguns. They also have several listings for a T/C in pistol lenght barrels. Seriously, unless your going out after griz, and even then I don't think you'ld be too much under gunned, that cartridge will take anything on this continent. gypsyman
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Offline manatee1947

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2011, 02:18:56 PM »
The Lyman Cast Bullet manual list 15-20 gr of blue dot in the 444, 19 gr shows 1570fps with the 245 gr Keith/Lyman bullet 429421 from a 22" barrel, and in a 44mag, 17.5 gr is shown as max, out of a Ruger 10/44 18 1/2 " carbine barrel produces 1665 fps. Yoy should be able to use at least 18gr w/ no problem with 250 gr bullets, and then work from there if you must.
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Offline Jason F

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Re: blue dot and 44 mag and 445 super mag
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2011, 03:45:35 PM »
Thanks for the info I am going to give it a try
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