Author Topic: 173 GR. kieth bullets (Read 1361 times)

zacharoo · « **on:** August 14, 2011, 05:00:54 PM »

Was given a quart milk carton full of 173 gr. 357 cailber bullets. They are SWC with gas checks. I need a good load for these bullets and can find no info. The powders I have on hand are HS6, HS7, Herco and bullseye. I have CCi SPM primers. Need a good load for my security six. I have a lot of 38 special brass but would like loads for 357 also.

Zacharoo

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** August 14, 2011, 06:27:52 PM »

If they are gas checked they are NOT a Keith design but rather a Thompson design. They likely are from Lyman's 358156 mould one of my favorites. Bullseye is the only one of those powders I have experience with it is far from the ideal choice. I don't have a manual handy and don't give out loads from memory as I find my memory isn't as great as it once was and perhaps it never was that great.

You can use data for 180 grain jacketed bullets but I'm not sure how much of that you're gonna find in the .38 case you want to use. I'd suggest checking Lyman's manual for the data. Everyone who reloads should own it.

zacharoo · « **Reply #2 on:** August 14, 2011, 06:46:49 PM »

Thanks Greybeard. I am not sure what type bullets the are I was giving a guess due to the weight and shape. I weighted various out of the box and got that adverage 173 with 1 grain either way out of almost 50. 40 somart that is. Don't have the exact kind but there are about 4 or 5 more quarts in that actic. Whould like to load them in 357 more thaan 38 special. Bullets are perty soft . Yhey can be scratched with your finger nail if you press perty hard, But there are gas checked. Never counted but figure ove 700 in the box and I can get all I want. The guy doesnt reload or have a 357 hand gun. I loadewd him some 223 and some 30-30 and said I can have all I want. Thanks any load help will be appreciated.
Zacharoo

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** August 14, 2011, 07:05:49 PM »

A photo of the bullet would be helpful but if they are what I think they are Lyman 358156 then they must be cast of pure or nearly pure lead as that bullet shouldn't weight that much with either Lyman #2 alloy or wheel weights and for sure even the Keith mould won't drop them that heavy from linotype.

That they are so soft is a good indication they are nearly pure lead. If so I'd not try to run them at full magnum velocity as even with the GC they might lead badly. I cast them of linotype and a mixture of it and wheel weights both and have pushed them a lot faster than toay's manuals suggest for the .357. I was loading them back in the day when the .357 standard was a 158 at 1550 fps. That was before they lowered the SAAMI pressure limit to tame the recoil so folks could use their S&W J frames without so much recoil.

I don't think I have any of them cast up at this time to show you what they look like but you can see them on Lyman's site I'm sure.

wncchester · « **Reply #4 on:** August 15, 2011, 03:28:02 AM »

Zac, if you're concerned that you can't find data for that exact bullet, don't worry about it. Anything for a 170 to 180 will do fine, as The Bearded One says, because it just ain't all that specifically critical; there are a LOT of good bullets out there for which no one publishes loads for. They should do great in mild to medium .357 loads. If anyone offered me a deal like that I'd take 'em all if I had to hire a fork lift to get them home.

BCB · « **Reply #5 on:** August 15, 2011, 01:30:37 PM »

I shoot the Lyman 358429 and it is a "true" Keith style boolit...

It weighs in at 173 grains...

So, I suspect you could look at Lyman data and start from there...

I don't shoot the powders you list, as I usually use slower burners...

But I have used Scot 453 and Trail Boss--both fast burners...

By the way, I am shooting them out of a very early year stainless Security-Six and they are very accurate...

Good-luck...BCB

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** August 15, 2011, 02:07:38 PM »

Here is the Lyman 358156 bullet. It should NOT weight 173 grains.

Here is the Lyman 358429 Keith bullet. It should weight about 173 grains.

Swampman · « **Reply #7 on:** August 15, 2011, 02:55:38 PM »

I'm using 4 grains of Unique in .38 Special cases and 5 grains of Unique in .357 cases. I'd love to have some of those bullets.

Graybeard · « **Reply #8 on:** August 15, 2011, 06:56:19 PM »

Looking over the Midsouth catalog tonight I noticed that RCBS makes a mould for a GC bullet they call 180 grains. They call it a silhouette bullet and the meplat is a bit small looking but otherwise it is much like a Keith bullet with GC added to the bottom. Here it is:

lakota · « **Reply #9 on:** August 16, 2011, 08:32:32 AM »

Here are a couple from my Lyman 358429 Mold. Cast from wheel weight alloy they come out right around 170 grs for me. Right now I am using 10 grs H4227. Good bullet but I have to either use 38 Spl cases or trim .357 brass so they will work in my Ruger SP101 .357 Mag. I have trimmed about 200 peices of .357 Nickle brass and no problems so far. I dont care for nickle plated brass so I figured if it didnt work out I would be wasting good brass.

ratdog · « **Reply #10 on:** August 17, 2011, 11:51:08 PM »

those bullets look just like the ones i have been shooting in my 357 handi rifle i bought them from montana bullet works .i have been using winchester 231 170 grain bullet no gas check they are on the web.

zacharoo · « **Reply #11 on:** November 03, 2011, 10:24:18 AM »

The same guy the bullets came from had some reloads. They were remington cases with the above bullets . CCI mag. primers and 8.5 grains of HS6 powder. The ammo looks fine and the guy that reloaded them was very precise . As these rounds safe to shoot in a ruger securithy six. He shot them in a S&W Model 19 for years. They seamed hot . I never shot any. I was given 250 rounds. I tried to take down one round and the GC stayed in the case and I can't get it out. Hate to lose the brass. I used a hammer bullet puller. HELP!!!!
Zacharoo

Swampman · « **Reply #12 on:** November 03, 2011, 10:37:42 AM »

Why won't you shoot them?

zacharoo · « **Reply #13 on:** November 03, 2011, 11:04:48 AM »

I have looked in all the data I have and can't find loading data for a 180 gr. (Is alittle heavier than My bullet) with HS6 and a mag. primer. Just being safe. Is 8.5 gr. of HS6 safe with that bullet ?
Zacharoo

Swampman · « **Reply #14 on:** November 03, 2011, 01:16:36 PM »

They do seem a tad warm. Could you screw a self tapping screw through the gas check and pull it with pliers?

zacharoo · « **Reply #15 on:** November 03, 2011, 01:29:02 PM »

I used an enercha(hammer) puller and the gas check stayed in . Got the old one out but I loose the bullet. Deformed it . The bullets were crimped in heavy with a FCD by Lee. I could savce the brass and primer and powder but loose the bullets. I for some reason think that the loads are too hot. Do you think it is worth the loss to feel safe, Once the bullet is out. The gas chech moves to the neck of the case. I just press on 1 side it cocks and I can pull it out with a needle nosed plires. Thus saving powder case and primer. I can flair the case again and use a little less powder with a new bullet. I will go back to the house and see If I can get another quart milk carton of bullets. What would be a good load with the HS6 powder. Any sugestions I don't want a hot load just a safe one .

Zacharoo

45-70.gov · « **Reply #16 on:** November 03, 2011, 01:38:14 PM »

i use bullseye of the ones you named

i load 185 WFN......some gas checked mostly pb ones

6 grains in the 357.......great in the handi and black hawk.....limit them in the j-frames

i would not load a gas checked bullet in a 38.....but my 38 load in pb is 3 grains bullseye
better that check stuck in your brass than your barrel
also a waste of a gas sheck in a 38....save them for your GOT 357 loads

JustaShooter · « **Reply #17 on:** November 03, 2011, 01:40:17 PM »

zacharoo, if there is any doubt on your part, don't shoot them, pull them, reuse the brass & primers, and melt the lead down if the bullets aren't reusable.

I personally won't shoot hand loads I didn't make myself, but that's just me. I know my process and take care to put safeguards in place to help prevent problems, but I don't know anything about what anyone else does - no matter what they say they do.

Just a Shooter

anachronism · « **Reply #18 on:** November 03, 2011, 03:20:19 PM »

Pull the bullets with your inertia bullet puller. The gas check will stay in place, as you've discovered. Use a small screwdriver and push down hard on one side of the check, forcing it to tilt. Keep pushing until the check turns mostly sideways, then shake the powder out of the case into a container. Next, pull the gascheck out with needle nose pliers. Resize the case with the decapping stem removed from your sizing die, then reload as you see fit.

zacharoo · « **Reply #19 on:** November 03, 2011, 03:42:10 PM »

That is how I did it once and it worked. Any thought on a load useing HS6 and I will call these bullets 180 grain to be safe. What is a good safe charge of HS6 and a CCI 550 primer for the 357 in my ruger security six. I have received also 2 3/4 pounds of HS6.
Zacharoo

anachronism · « **Reply #20 on:** November 04, 2011, 12:54:13 PM »

Quote from: zacharoo on November 03, 2011, 10:24:18 AM

The same guy the bullets came from had some reloads. They were remington cases with the above bullets . CCI mag. primers and 8.5 grains of HS6 powder. The ammo looks fine and the guy that reloaded them was very precise . As these rounds safe to shoot in a ruger securithy six. He shot them in a S&W Model 19 for years. They seamed hot . I never shot any. I was given 250 rounds. I tried to take down one round and the GC stayed in the case and I can't get it out. Hate to lose the brass. I used a hammer bullet puller. HELP!!!!
Zacharoo

Are they loaded in .357 cases, or 38 Spl cases? This appears to be a safe 357 mag load according to Hodgdons. Perhaps you should visit their website. In 38 Spl, they would be off the charts.

spinafish · « **Reply #21 on:** November 04, 2011, 02:12:08 PM »

check out the Hodgdon site:http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp they have data for 170 grain jacketed bullets using HS-6 that should be perfectly safe with your lead bullets that only 3 grains heavier..the 49th edition Lyman Reloading Manual does not have HS-6 listed in the .357 mag section using the 170 grain cast bullet..but they do list it for the .38 special..this is for a plain not gas checked bullet...starting load is 5.0 grains for 677 fps ..max load is 6.4 for 856 fps. hope this helps!

Ak.Hiker · « **Reply #22 on:** November 06, 2011, 06:09:41 PM »

I checked my Sierra manuel for you. They have a load listed for their 170 grain jacketed bullet with 7.3 grains of Herco. Listed at 1000 fsp. 7.7 grains is max at 1050 fps. They also have a 180 grain FPJ bullet loaded with 7 grains of Herco at 1000 fps and a max load of 7.2 grains for 1050. Interesting to note that they list the 170 grain loaded with 7.3 grain of Herco as an accuracy load. Hope this helps. These are 357 Magnum loads.