Paradox bore

[woodsrunner]

 Been looking in the gun safe and don't see what I'm looking for, so--

-- what do you guys think of taking a 444Marlin barrel and having the rifling bored out except the last inch or so at the muzzle. Should be big enough to use it as a 450Mongo; use 2 1/2" .410 shot (or use the 444 brass with shot); then maybe come up with a roundball load. Good for big game, small game, flying game with a simple change of cartridge. No choke to put or take out, no fooling around, just change loads. The Paradox guns were developed for this a long time ago and worked well within their limits, seems it should work now.

 Thoughts please--woodsunner

[thejanitor]

Wouldn't it save a bunch to just buy a non full choke 20 ga barrel and add some type of more precise sight system? carry slugs or shot?
You will take a 100.00+ barrel and pay a smith at least 100.00 more.... It is a neat idea but you may be re-inventing the wheel. Or the 45-410 combo barrel , but they say the accuracy is an issue and you can't load them very hot.   Just my .02
thejanitor

[moorepower]

What he said.

[Spanky]

What he said again.
 
 
 
Spanky

[bikerbeans]

woodsrunner,
 
If you want to shoot 410 shells you will also need to rechamber the barrel as the 410 rim and case are just a tad to big to fit into a 444M chamber.  Note, if you just open up the rim cut on a 444M barrel to about .530" you can load a 410 hull into the existing 444M chamber if you resize the 410 hull in a 444M FL size die (you have to load the 410 hull without a shotcup).  This modification will still allow you to chamber and safely shoot a 444M round. 
 
You could load shot into a 444M brass but a 410 shotcup would be undersize by .02" (inside the cartridge) so you might have to load without the cup.  With your round ball idea you could probably load more than one in the 444M brass and buckshot would be a possiblity also.   Since you are after an older type of gun maybe load with BP or BP substitute?  Please post if you build this as I think it would be an interesting project.
 
BB

[woodsrunner]

Thanks for your thoughts.

Janitor, 45/410barrel was a thought except I'm trying to stay away from having to remove the choke tube to shoot a bullet. But this barrel can be loaded fairly heavy and accurately using the 11.4x74R wildcat.

20 ga. was also a thought but, losing the option of a longer range bullet load and a lighter bullet load, unless a sabot load could be used.

BB, thanks for pointing out the chamber size difference. Maybe just stick with 444 brass using card wads.

This is still in the what-if stage so all input is appreciated--woodsrunner

[necchi]

 It's actually quite suprising how quickly a shot charge will "doughnut" through even a short section of rifled bore. In as short as 10-15yrds the shot pattern becomes a circle with a big hole in the middle that has no shot.
 
 Just a short study of the Paradox indicates they have a relatively large bore, 28 through 12ga, even the 28ga equates to a 56 cal. The velocities of the ammo currently available is in the 1100fps range with full lead solid projectiles. Given a background in Black powder guns that use full lead and lower velocities the rifling configuration is significantly different than that of our modern rifles designed for cup-n-core bullets.
 
 While it's a novel idea to just hog/hone out the inside of a large bore Handi and leave some rifling towards the muzzle, I think the fundamental design of the bore/rifling will be the limiting factor for the custom job you seek,,
 
 If the Handi was truly a simple, productive and reliable platform for a well functioning multi task single bore shotgun/rifle it would be common knowledge and perhaps even offered by the Gun's maker by now.
 
 It may well work, but I'm afraid the resulting actual real world bullet accuracy and/or shot pattern would be dismally lacking in the performance most of us are used too as compared to a stand alone rifle or shotgun.

[srussell]

if you have are know someone that uses a rifled choke tube in their shotgun for hunting with slugs.try a shot shell through it and see what it does.

[bikerbeans]

I once took a shotgun with a fully rifled slug barrel to a 3 gun shoot thinking that at close range the rifling wouldn't be that much of a problem.  I was very wrong, the results with birdshot were terrible.  The "smoke ring" pattern was obvious on many of the target I couldn't knock down.  I was wondering how much affect the rifling would have on birdshot that was loaded loose into a cartridge or hull, since there would be no shotcup to engage the rifling?   Maybe another test project for me when it warms up in the spring.  It will not be the first barrel I have leaded to the point it looks like a smooth bore.
 
BB

[spruce]

Maybe my thought process is screwed up, but I'm thinking the secret to the success of the Paradox rifling was that it was straight, with no twist???
 
Like someone said above, even a short section of twist-rifling would likely have an effect on the shot pattern.  With solid projectiles moving at (relatively) high velocities I would have some doubts that a short section of twist-rifling would impart enough spin to stabilize the ball or bullet - especially if the rifling tends to be on the shallow side.
 
If I were going to do a project like this I think I might start with a smaller caliber barrel so it could be bored and chambered to the specs of your choosing and have true Paradox rifling cut at the same time.  Just a thought.

[gcrank1]

My understanding has always been, and somewhere I have a reprint of the British Paradox trials, that Holland and Holland used twist rifling at the muzzle. They 'claimed' no detriment to shot loads, but others in the British guntrade disagreed.