I need help with my Max!!

[Tom Threetoes]

Just a few days ago I was well on my way to deer season with high hopes. My max was ready or so I thought! It seems my first target session had filled me with false hopes. It just won't group 3 shots together even with time between shots to cool down. It may put 2 nearly touching and throw the 3rd way off or group the the 1st and 3rd and fling the middle shot out. The wild shots are usually strung mostly vertically, I'm at wits end. The forearm has been floated with an o ring, the latch is dry, my scope base and screws are secured with locktite, and the rings are lapped and tight. The barrel is new and factory fitted and the scope is a new Nikon Pro staff. I did drill my seater plug a tiny bit off center and the 180gr. SSPs may not be seated perfectly concentric but it wont group the Remington 180s either and they are centered. My load is a near max dose of AA1680 and all my shots are from a sand bag rest. I had the same trouble with my other carbine and it's 45 barrel too. I love the little rifle but it's drivin' me nuts! Thanks for lettin' me cry on you alls shoulders, Tom

[bikerbeans]

I'd check the stock bolt torque to make sure it is tight.  Also, I am guessing it is a little colder now than during your first range session and maybe you are wearing more or different clothing?  I have one rainproof jacket that is slick and if I shoot wearing it I will be all over the target because the buttpad is sliding around on my shoulder. 
 
BB

[clearwater]

Just a few days ago I was well on my way to deer season with high hopes. My max was ready or so I thought! It seems my first target session had filled me with false hopes. It just won't group 3 shots together even with time between shots to cool down. It may put 2 nearly touching and throw the 3rd way off or group the the 1st and 3rd and fling the middle shot out. The wild shots are usually strung mostly vertically, I'm at wits end. The forearm has been floated with an o ring, the latch is dry, my scope base and screws are secured with locktite, and the rings are lapped and tight. The barrel is new and factory fitted and the scope is a new Nikon Pro staff. I did drill my seater plug a tiny bit off center and the 180gr. SSPs may not be seated perfectly concentric but it wont group the Remington 180s either and they are centered. My load is a near max dose of AA1680 and all my shots are from a sand bag rest. I had the same trouble with my other carbine and it's 45 barrel too. I love the little rifle but it's drivin' me nuts! Thanks for lettin' me cry on you alls shoulders, Tom

Is your front rest on the bags right up against the trigger guard?

Forearm screw tight?

[MSP Ret]

Ask another shooter of verified ability shoot it also to confirm and get a baseline for how it's shooting. One of the first things to check for (always) when accuracy goes south is the crown and excess leading in the barrel. Also why are you at near a max loading, do you need the max energy? I have found that MOST times the best attainable accuracy from a gun comes from somewhat less than max loading densities. Good luck and keep us advised as you work through this problem....<><....

[quickdtoo]

Vertical stringing can be caused by improper/insufficient latch engagement, usually happens on a new barrel because the shooter doesn't close the action firmly enough, it takes a while for the parts to mate good and colder temps may be partly to blame. Also, if you cleaned it good it may take some more fouling to get the barrel shooting well again. New scopes do go bad too, unfortunately. 

Tim

[murphdog]

Tom,
What does it do if you keep shooting in the group?  I have a 223 barrel that did what you describe, put 2 shots close and 1 a couple of inches higher or vice versa.  A 10-shot group gave me a very tight 6-shot cluster at the point of aim, and the remaining 4 bullets made a very tight cluster 2 inches above that.  Something was clearly shifting up and down in the gun or scope.  I finally fixed it by bedding the forend to the barrel with silicone.  FWIW, with that particular barrel the O-ring did not help, in fact made it less accurate. 
Duane

[Dinny]

Also why are you at near a max loading, do you need the max energy?

Andy,
  I have found that the Max is an exception; it does like near max loads. I use 28gr of AA1680 with the 180gr SS-PB and it has shot very well in all my Max rifles. (David recommend this load ) Some liked it better than others, but they all shot 1 1/4" groups or much better.




  Tom,
  I would try bedding the forend if you have already tried the other simpler improvements. I just did a forend with RTV bedding and it turned out very well. Next time I'm gonna have to use a better release agent. It was alotta work to get that thing back off after the RTV dried.


Thanks, Dinny

[spikehorn]

Have you tried shooting it without the fore end on?

[cwlongshot]

Vertical stringing can be caused by improper/insufficient latch engagement, usually happens on a new barrel because the shooter doesn't close the action firmly enough, it takes a while for the parts to mate good and colder temps may be partly to blame. Also, if you cleaned it good it may take some more fouling to get the barrel shooting well again. New scopes do go bad too, unfortunately. 

Tim

I could not agree more!!!
 
Vertical grouping issues are almost always a latch engagement OR scope/mount problem!!
 
If you scope moves front to back it will raise or lower impacts.
If you not constantly closing the action (Usually on imperfectly fit barrels) the bullets impact will be hi then lo then hi etc...
 
Good luck,
 CW

[gcrank1]

Ive shot a fair bit of competition and the inconsistent placement of the buttplate on the shoulder WILL result in verticle stringing, especially off the bench, as will leaning into the gun differently shot to shot (it affects the way the gun recoils into you).
How is it offhand, or in the various field positions you would use actually hunting?
IMHO, two good shots is all you will ever likely get at a deer anyway; any third shot is likely to be a Hail Mary out of desperation and unlikely to connect well.

[Tom Threetoes]

Good replies all, unfortunetly I'm workin' 10 or 11 hours a day and don't have time to try some of the suggestions till the week end and season opens Saturday. I do have another question, will opening and closing the action hasten the latch mating process? I can do that while watching TV. Thanks everybody for your help and ideas. Tom

[gcrank1]

It sure cant hurt! Go for it and good luck (just remember that your first two shots went pretty much where you were looking and have confidence that it will do the same when game is out there).