Old barrel does not fit. Can this be fixed?

[Blackhawker]

I recently bought a very nice pistol barrel but unknowingly, I didn't realize that it has a larger square shaped lug and a single locking lug unlike my newer T/C barrels.  Today I pinned the barrel in place and shut the action only to find that I could not open the action no matter what I did.  Thankfully I didn't have a round in the chamber!!  I ended up taking apart my frame and managed to unlock the barrel fron the underside and it finally released from the action.  By the way, the frame I have is an older frame from the early 90's and has the mountain lion on it.  The barrel must be quite a bit older as it has a fixed sight on the front that is not removable by screws. 
 
Here is my question:  What can I do in order to have this barrel function correctly on my T/C frame?  Are the two completely incompatable?  I once had an armour alloy frame that I sent to the custom shop and the people in the custom shop fixed the barrel up so it would work in my frame.  Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, the custom shop is gone and forgotton...is it not?  Without talking to someone in the custom shop, I'm afraid I'm stuck with this barrel and nothing to shoot it with.  Does anyone know a way around this problem?
 
Thanks!
Blackhawker

[David D.]

Changing the locking bolts to a two pc. may take care of the problem. If not I'm sure TC Arms will take care of the problem. If it were me I would remove the locking bolts from another barrel and try them.

I once had the same problem and switched bolts between two barrels. One that would unlocked and one that would not. After the switch both worked.

[Hopalong7]

Changing the locking bolts to a two pc. may take care of the problem. If not I'm sure TC Arms will take care of the problem. If it were me I would remove the locking bolts from another barrel and try them.

I once had the same problem and switched bolts between two barrels. One that would unlocked and one that would not. After the switch both worked.

Ditto....switching lock bolts is quite easy!
Walt

[Blackhawker]

Thanks for the info guys.  I'll try what you say when I have a chance.  I think, however, that the shape of the lug on this barrel may have something to do with the problem.  When I took apart the frame, it looked like the larger and more bulky sized/shaped lug was causing the problem as to not clear the locking system and open up. 

I have an added problem now.  I went to the range yesterday and I'm hoping that the problem I had does NOT have something to do with my tinkering with my T/C frame when trying to unlock the barrel mentioned above.  I shot a different new barrel three times and two out of three times the action opened up and shot a casing back at me, right in the face!  One might ask, why on earth did you try it again after the first time?  Well, I thought that maybe I was being careless and didn't assure that the action was locked on the first try so I shot the second round with the gun off to the side a bit so if the action were to open, it would blast the empty case into the air and away from anyone or myself.  Ironically, the second shot didn't open.  So I figured that perhaps I didn't lock the first shot up correctly.  So on shot number three, I took a nice aim and "smacko"...right in the face again!  At that point I put the gun away.
 
This coming weekend, I intend to test things once again, only not in my face.  I want to test my other barrels that I have shot for years.  If they all open up upon firing, then I'll know that I may have done something wrong with my frame.  If not and only the new barrel opens, then I'll know it's a problem with the barrel.  I'll post a followup after I go to the range next week.

In the mean time, do any of you have any idea as to why an action would open like this?

[Keith L]

Who made the barrel with the different appearing part?  If it was TC then it will work with proper locking bolts.  They are made to work with all frames with the exception of G2 muzzleloading barrels.  They will not work with Contender frames.

My bet is that the other new barrel has locking bolts that were polished to much.  Try your frame with a barrel that you know worked before.  Then try the locking bolts from that barrel on the ones that don't work and see if things change.

[Bullseye]

If it is a T/C barrel it sounds like one of the early barrels that did not have a stepped lug.  I thought they would fit all the Contenders, I cannot remember why they went to the stepped lug.
 
My money would also be on the locking lugs.

[Blackhawker]

Both barrels I recently purchased are Thompson Center barrels.  One has a standard or what I would call a "regular" looking bottom lug.  As Bullseye put it, the barrel in question (that won't open) is not stepped and the angle cut near the rear is very short and steep as opposed to my other barrels where the back angle cut is longer and at more of a shallow angle.  This barrel with the larger non-stepped lug also has a one piece, non-split locking lug on it. 
 
The barrel that opens up upon firing has a "normal" looking bottom lug to it.  It also has a two piece split locking lug.
 
I'll try to post a picture soon of the older barrel that will not unlock without disassembly of the frame.  By the way, when I say disassembly, really all I had to do was remove the trigger and trigger guard assembly and then I used a screwdriver to push the locking lug of the barrel open in order to get it to release.
 
If this is just a locking lug issue for both barrels, is this an item I can buy from Thompson or will it require me to send the barrels and my frame in for fitting?  I did that once before in order to have an armour alloy barrel fit to my frame.  The service was great and I had a very fast turnaround but that was before the T/C custom shop had been shut down.  Are things back up and running again?  The last I heard was that the custom shop was closed and as far as I know, any service needed on a T/C is hit or miss and you're on your own....no support.  Is this true?

[BCB]

I have read of this problem many many times…

I have the same problem with a 22 Long Rifle Match barrel that I purchased a couple of year ago…

I have 3 frames and it will not function on 2 of the 3.  (Guess I was lucky it worked on at least one!)…

I have several different locking bolts.  Two pieces, one piece, ones with the roller pin a separate entity and ones with the pin an integral part of the bolts.  Different spring strengths also—the combinations are amazing!!!...

I have tried them all and this barrel will only work on one frame—period…

I have been told to send it back to T/C—I don’t want to—why should I have to?  Read the package the barrel comes in.  It says that G2 and Older-Style Contenders accept this same barrel—not so…

Plus, they want the receiver sent back and I ain’t even going that route…

Some have said that I must “polish” part of the bolt to make it smoother and work better—I looked for that direction on the package that the barrel came in and I can’t find that suggestion anywhere…

Some have even suggested that if I am not willing to do a bit of minor gunsmithing, that I should just stay away from Contenders—too late as I have had them for nearly 35 years—never had problems back then…

Regardless, I will purchase nothing but older barrels and will try them on the frame before I lay down the money.  This is basically all of this post that you need to read!!!...

That opening barrels by removing the trigger assembly just don’t get it—screwdrivers don’t seem like the proper tool to pry with and open an action…

Plus, it is easy to drop it and possibly damage a $300+ ‘scope when using the “Neanderthal Open Method”, and hopefully, the chamber won’t have a live round in it…
 
I think most of the problem is the fact that the quality control must be lacking and T/C knows that its customers will do the minor gunsmithing themselves...

Just my opinion…

Good-luck with your Contender…

Oh by the way, the 22 Match barrel shoots like a bandit--0.5” groups at 50 yards most of the time.  But, I want to put it on a receiver that has had professional trigger work and I think that 22 barrel is capable of even better accuracy with a good trigger pull—but I probably won’t know unless I get trigger work done on the only frame it will function on…

Just stuck in the past I guess…BCB

[Bullseye]

I pulled some of my reference material from the TCA out tonight.  Type I, II & III barrels have a flat bottom lug and the locking lugs are held in with an allen screw from the bottom.
 
Type IV barrel have a flat lug and the roll pin in the side to hold the locking lugs.
 
Type V barrels have the stepped lug and roll pin, these are the current barrels.
 
The step in the lug was added for strength.
 
All barrels should work whether flat or stepped lugs.
 
Now the locking lugs, that is a different issue and luckily I have had a problem only once so I am not the expert to tell you what to do there.

[Blackhawker]

Thanks for the info here but I'm a little confused.  Are you griping about T/C or griping to me about my "Neanderthal Open Method"?   
You've got a lot of venting going on here but about halfway through your message I wasn't sure to whom you are venting.

Thanks for whatever informative material you have presented however.

I have read of this problem many many times…

I have the same problem with a 22 Long Rifle Match barrel that I purchased a couple of year ago…

I have 3 frames and it will not function on 2 of the 3.  (Guess I was lucky it worked on at least one!)…

I have several different locking bolts.  Two pieces, one piece, ones with the roller pin a separate entity and ones with the pin an integral part of the bolts.  Different spring strengths also—the combinations are amazing!!!...

I have tried them all and this barrel will only work on one frame—period…

I have been told to send it back to T/C—I don’t want to—why should I have to?  Read the package the barrel comes in.  It says that G2 and Older-Style Contenders accept this same barrel—not so…

Plus, they want the receiver sent back and I ain’t even going that route…

Some have said that I must “polish” part of the bolt to make it smoother and work better—I looked for that direction on the package that the barrel came in and I can’t find that suggestion anywhere…

Some have even suggested that if I am not willing to do a bit of minor gunsmithing, that I should just stay away from Contenders—too late as I have had them for nearly 35 years—never had problems back then…

Regardless, I will purchase nothing but older barrels and will try them on the frame before I lay down the money.  This is basically all of this post that you need to read!!!...

That opening barrels by removing the trigger assembly just don’t get it—screwdrivers don’t seem like the proper tool to pry with and open an action…

Plus, it is easy to drop it and possibly damage a $300+ ‘scope when using the “Neanderthal Open Method”, and hopefully, the chamber won’t have a live round in it…
 
I think most of the problem is the fact that the quality control must be lacking and T/C knows that its customers will do the minor gunsmithing themselves...

Just my opinion…

Good-luck with your Contender…

Oh by the way, the 22 Match barrel shoots like a bandit--0.5” groups at 50 yards most of the time.  But, I want to put it on a receiver that has had professional trigger work and I think that 22 barrel is capable of even better accuracy with a good trigger pull—but I probably won’t know unless I get trigger work done on the only frame it will function on…

Just stuck in the past I guess…BCB

[Blackhawker]

Bullseye,
thanks for this info.  At least I know that all barrels should fit and it may just be the locking lug.  I'm still not sure why the one opens on firing.  I hope it can be an easy fix.  Of all the barrels I have, I probably need that one the least.  I guess I could sell it as it probably will work on another frame as BCB suggested.

Thanks.  I'll try to post the pics of my barrels if need be.  Doesn't sound like I need to though since all shapes are supposed to fit.

Thanks again,
Blackhawker

I pulled some of my reference material from the TCA out tonight.  Type I, II & III barrels have a flat bottom lug and the locking lugs are held in with an allen screw from the bottom.
 
Type IV barrel have a flat lug and the roll pin in the side to hold the locking lugs.
 
Type V barrels have the stepped lug and roll pin, these are the current barrels.
 
The step in the lug was added for strength.
 
All barrels should work whether flat or stepped lugs.
 
Now the locking lugs, that is a different issue and luckily I have had a problem only once so I am not the expert to tell you what to do there.

[BCB]

Blackhawker,
 
Nope wasn't pointing the “Neanderthal Open Method”, at you...
 
I have done it myself as it appears to be the only way to get the barrel to drop loose...
 
I don't know that I would sell it as there probably is a method to fix it, but it might cost a few bucks if done by a 'smith or T/C will ask for the frame to be sent with the barrel...
 
So, I guess you do have a few options...
 
But one thing that is for sure--it is annoying...
 
Good-luck...BCB

[Blackhawker]

What's annoying is that the custom shop closed.  Don't know if I mentioned this here or not but a few years ago I had purchased an Armour Alloy barrel that didn't fit my stainless frame.  I called T/C and was told to ask for Becky.  I called her, told her what I had and she said to send it to her attention.  I sent the frame and my barrel and got it back in a matter of only a couple of days.  I had other experiences with Becky as well...fast, good communications, and good quality of work.  The last time I needed something done by T/C, I called and asked to speak with Becky and was told that she and all the other people in the custom shop were gone and the person I spoke with had no idea on how to get my item worked on or to get answers.....whatever it was I was looking for at that time.  They told me to call this number and then I was referred to that number and the whole runaround.  Since then I've hoped that I would never encounter an issue with my T/C's but here I am, not knowing what to do.  The last I had heard, the custom shop was closed and I'm not about to send my frame or anything else to a place that seems unpredictable. 
Don't know if I said it here or not but if it's gonna be hit or miss from now on with T/C, I guess it's time to look into another manufacturer or something...or take up gunsmithing myself. 

Blackhawker,
 
Nope wasn't pointing the “Neanderthal Open Method”, at you...
 
I have done it myself as it appears to be the only way to get the barrel to drop loose...
 
I don't know that I would sell it as there probably is a method to fix it, but it might cost a few bucks if done by a 'smith or T/C will ask for the frame to be sent with the barrel...
 
So, I guess you do have a few options...
 
But one thing that is for sure--it is annoying...
 
Good-luck...BCB

[BCB]

Blackhawker,
 
You are correct with the service you mention of recent...
 
The reason I had all of the different locking bolts is because I had to call 3 different times to ask for a set of them and until I called the 3rd time, I had not recieved any at all...
 
Then all 3 sets arrived--in different packages--ALL DIFFERENT STYLES...
 
Talked to 3 different chicks also...
 
It is obvious none of them know which style was correct...
 
I don't even know if I got a correct set as none of them would make the 22 Match barrel lock on frames other than the one it is on now...
 
People will vehemently defend T/C, but I asssure you, they do not have quality control anymore and the employees are "off-of-the-street" personal, as far as I am concerned...
 
I would not have said that 12-15 years ago...
 
There are other sources of Contender stuff and there are people who are widely known who do know something about them...
 
I had a trigger job by a well known person and it is absolutely amazing.  Ain't anyway that T/C would even begin to get a trigger that worked like the one I had worked on...
 
Old stuff for me is the only way I am going to go anymore...
 
Good-luck...BCB

[Blackhawker]

BCB, the barrels in which I am having the problems are old barrels.  In fact, one of them has to be from the late 70's if I had to guess.  My frame I purchased new in roughly 1990 or 91, so it's by far not new. 

As for the locking lugs, does anyone know where I can buy some of these to try?  I checked Midway and they don't sell them.  Is this something that only T/C sells?  To be honest, I haven't had much time in the past few days to check around but any help in places to look is much obliged. 
Thanks!

[rebel49]

Blackhawker
Try E.A. Brown, they may have them. That where I got John's barrel nuts from.
Be careful kid you'll put your eye out with that .375 barrel, HA.
Rebel49

[Hopalong7]

     TC used to send the split lock bolts to you for free...don't know what thier stance on that is now.  I'd sure try them first though.
Walt

[Blackhawker]

Hey Rebel49!  That's why they make safety glasses, right?   
I took my T/C pistol out today and tried out my pistol barrels in order to verify that my frame is working OK and it's only the locking bolts of the new barrel that are the problem.  I tried things out starting light to heavy beginnig with 30 carbine, 30-30, and later played with a bunch of 45-70 rounds from the pistol.  All locks up tight and stays locked under fire and LOTS of recoil.
Conclusion and confirmation:  It's the locking lugs of the barrel!
 

Blackhawker
Try E.A. Brown, they may have them. That where I got John's barrel nuts from.
Be careful kid you'll put your eye out with that .375 barrel, HA.
Rebel49

[Blackhawker]

As a follow up:
I talked to Ed of Ed's Contenders and he told me that the reason my one barrel opens upon firing is because it probably needs a new lock bolt spring.  I switched springs with another barrel the other day and test fired the barrel.  It works.  Thanks Ed!

As it turns out, E.A. Brown has split locking bolts and I've got one and a new spring on the way for the barrel that wouldn't open. 
Thanks to all who gave input here!
Blackhawker

[leadman]

I recommend that you mark the locking lugs on a barrel that works for you with a magic marker. Then close it a couple of times until you see where the marker is worn off. Do the same with your problem barrels and compare to the good barrel.
 
If the amount of marker worn off the barrels that are problems is less than the good barrel you can use emery paper on a backer (file, wood, etc) until the bad barrels match the good barrel. go slow and check progress often. The locking lugs are very hard so if you use this method it would be very difficult to go too far.