Savage muzzleloaders

[1911bmw]

I have been looking for a muzzleloader lately and after finding that Savage makes one I thought my search was over, however I am concerned that I never hear about them.  A muzzleloader capable of using smokeless powder seems like the way to go.  Why are they not popular?

[Cheesehead]

They are popular in my house, I have three of them.
 
Cheese

[possume]

i love mine wouldnt go back to any other alot of states dont allow use of smokeless powder so some dont see the need to buy and still use black powder some people try to say they are not true muzzleloaders they are more popular than you think but they are few places to talk about them without being flamed by other people do a search on savage ml .they are cheaper to shoot cleaner only clean mine once a year and mine is very accurate

[LanceR]

Part of the reason that outside of some pockets of great interest the 10ML II is little heard of is due to the patchwork of different regulations around the country as applied to muzzleloders for big game hunting implements.  Some states, like here in NY, allow smokeless powder, in-line actions, scopes etc.  Some require flintlock or matchlock actions, iron sights and black powder.  Others are everywhere in between.  Some states say you can't use smokeless powder but allow Pyrodex or 777 which is really stupid because if you look at the box or can it clearly states that they are smokless powder.

Without doubt the Savage has the strongest barrel ever put into a muzzleloader and the ability to use smokeless powder at about 1/5 (or less) of the cost of Pydodex or 777 pellets is a great thing.  The ability to shoot all season without having to clean the rifle or screw around with swabbing between shots is a very good thing, too.  As another Savage shooter stated "I clean my rifle every 100 shots or 100 deer, whichever comes first!"

The breech is truly sealed.  There is zero blowback into the action or onto your scope.  The breech stays so clean that Savage neither provides information on disassembling the bolt nor do they recommend it.  Primers can't get stuck.  The bolt has 100% positive extraction of the primer whether it is fired or not.

The only wear part is a $2.80 (when I last bought some) "ventliner" which is essentially a hollow screw that threads into the front of the breech plug and takes all the errosion from fiiring.  I replace mine every 100 or so shots but lots of folks go 200 shots or more with no problems.  You're rifle will come with a few extra ones.

If you use one of the double base powders such as Accurate 5744 you will have the most temperature insensitive and moisture resistant propellant you can pour down a muzzleloader's barrel.

There are a whole slew of articles on load developement, maintenance, accessories etc over on the ChuckHawks.com website on the muzzleloading info page.

Even if you can't use smokeless powderwhere you hunt the Savage is the strongest and cleanest rifle on the market. 

Savage states that they should shoot at 1-1/2" or less at 100 yards and sends a 100 yards test target with each gun.  I have never seen a 10ML that will not shot to 1" or less with a little load development time and consisten loading procedures.

Savage's customer service is top notch.  Last year I sent my 10ML back to get a new barrel.  I included a note that stated that I had caerelessly short loaded the rifle and bulged the barrel.  They installed the new barrel, proof tested and accuracy tested it then shipped it back with a new breech plug and some extra items I wanted.  They even did it as a custom job without scew holes for iron sights.  Despite my calling them to try to pay they would not accept payment for any of it. 

If you are anywhere near Central New York you are welcome to try mine.

[Cheesehead]

I shot mine today at 200 yards, the accuracy is amazing.
 
Cheese

[Bullseye]

Mine is not going anywhere or being replaced by anything else.
 
The others have done a good of telling you the benefits.

[tom548]

I bought a Savage when they first came out. I have 3 smokeless powder. A Savage 50 cal completely stock, a Savage with a 45 cal custom barrel and a H&R handi rifle (45-70) that I converted to 45 cal ML. They all shoot great and only need the same care as a reg rifle. You do need to use some common sense with the powder and the quantity of powder used. Don't just take what a person tells you as a good safe load with out doing some research in the loading books.

[Old English]

In my local area WMA's you have the choice of muzzle-loader or shotgun. Obviously ML only during ML season, but for the other 2 months of gun, those are your choices. My Savage has a nice load which puts out a 300 grain 45/70 bullet at 2400 fps, bullet and still has 2000 ft/pounds at 250 yards. I have the Nikon BDC scope which aligns the reticles to 400 yards when it is still deadly. I won't shoot further than 300 yards and probably less but....... The Savage gives you that option. I practice with it regularly so I know how well it shoots.
That my friend is the reason to buy a Savage and shoot smokeless powder. The lack of cleaning certainly doesn't hurt either.

[LanceR]

I should have added this to my original reply...

The 10ML II is the only muzzleloading firearm made that is 100% proof tested and for which the maker will tell you what steel is used.  You know what kind is pressure it can take.  With every other maker you are guessing since they won't share what pressure testing data (if any) they have.  Some, CVA, Traditions etc use soft extruded steel barrels (or used to-I do not keep up with their procedures)

It is the only rifle that has been pressure tested for three Triple-7 or three Pyrodex 50 grain pellets.  Why is this important?  Every reloading manual on earth cautions reloaders to use the most current data and recommendations from component manufacturers.  If a centerfire rifle maker advised you to exceed the powder maker's recommendation for powder in a particular cartridge by 50% they would get overwhelmed by a well deserved fire storm of lawsuits.  Every other manufacturer will tell you that you can use a 50 grain equivalent of pellets.

Note that Hodgdon, who makes both 777 and P-dex has an entire webpage devoted to related load safety data and clearly states that the maximum allowable pellet charge in a .50 rifle is 100 grain equivalent in pellets.  See:  http://www.hodgdon.com/ml-warning.html

I don't know who you would choose to trust in this matter but I'll take my ques from Hodgdon, thank you very much...

The Savage has, by far, the lowest life cycle cost in muzzleloading.  Since it does not need to be cleaned after every outing or swabbed after every shot you will save a bundle of time and money by reducing your maintenance to a tiny fraction of what it was before. 

Even with Blackhorn 209, which is the current "gold standard" in loose powder you will have more maintenance to do than with smokeless powder.

Powder costs are a fraction of black powder, Pyrodex, 777, Blackhorn etc.

I use 44 grains of Accurate 5744 behind a 300 grain bullet.  I get 159 shots from a one pound can (assuming no waste) and at current MidwayUSA prices ($25) it costs me about $0.16 a shot.

Triple-7 loose powder costs $24.59 and likely needs 100-110 grains to get to the same velocity.  At 100 grains the cost per shot is $0.36

Triple-7 50 grain equivalent pellets cost $28.49/100 or $40 a pound equivalent.  Since I would get 50 shots from the box my cost is $0.57 per shot.

Other powder choices follow the same trends.

I hope all this helps you in making your decision.

Lance

[chefjeff]

+1 for all the above.I wouldn't trade either of mine for any two others.

[Redhawk1]

I love mine, I was a TC Encore fan for many years, then I got my Savage and never looked back. Cheesehead, 3 of them.. Now I am jelious.