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Offline Jason F

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30-30 rechamber question
« on: December 14, 2011, 02:40:31 AM »
Would it be safe to rechamber to 300 winchester mag, or give me some more ideas?
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Offline PPosey

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2011, 02:54:17 AM »
I bet 30-40 krag would be a good one,,, I have thought about doing that myself as I already have a 1896 Springfield krag
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Offline PPosey

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2011, 02:57:46 AM »
You could load a little heavier than the standard Krag load as you are not shooting a 100 year old gun but still would be at probably milder .308 win loads,,, still having a rimmed case could be a help
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2011, 03:38:36 AM »
Jason,
 
There have been a couple of not so successful attempts to make MAG handis via the rechamber method.  The Magnums have too much pressure with too long a dwell time, probably not a good idea.  The 30-40 Krag or maybe IIRC the 30-40 Krag AI is doable from a 30-30 Handi barrel.  I think if you just do a 30-40 Krag, not the AI, you need to set back the barrel which ain't easy on a Handi.  Click on the 4D reamer rental banner and they have a chart that shows what rechambers work on a particular barrel.  And then Fred will be nice enough to rent you a reamer. ;)   
 
BB
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MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline Spanky

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2011, 03:45:27 AM »
It's possible but not safe. Tim had a 300 mag of some sort and it didn't work out so well. I think he ended up using the barrel for a stub.
 
 
 
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Offline PPosey

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2011, 04:22:10 AM »
Do you mean you would have to set back for a 30-40 or 30-40 AI??? I figured that would be a simple rechamber with a reamer,,,,

Quote from: bikerbeans on December 14, 2011, 03:38:36 AM
Jason,
 
There have been a couple of not so successful attempts to make MAG handis via the rechamber method.  The Magnums have too much pressure with too long a dwell time, probably not a good idea.  The 30-40 Krag or maybe IIRC the 30-40 Krag AI is doable from a 30-30 Handi barrel.  I think if you just do a 30-40 Krag, not the AI, you need to set back the barrel which ain't easy on a Handi.  Click on the 4D reamer rental banner and they have a chart that shows what rechambers work on a particular barrel.  And then Fred will be nice enough to rent you a reamer. ;)   
 
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Offline kevinsmith5

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30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2011, 04:38:38 AM »
Why not just a 30-30 AI? That's easy, safe, and brass is easily made through fire forming.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2011, 05:18:36 AM »
To answer your question NO do not rechamber it to any belted magnum. 

(Yes i know H&R did offer it in 450 Marlin for a time but it's not a true magnum as any prudent loader could safely surpass it's  ballistics.)

There are a number of other calibers for better then 30-30 ballistics. But none that are appreciably gonna surpass the 30/06. (its avalible as factory chambering) Personally if I wanted this I would go with the 06 and compensate. OR go with a different platform and get your magnum.

CW
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2011, 06:04:33 AM »
I won't recommend any bottlenecked magnum in a Handi, the large case head at magnum pressures is too much for the frame, H&R was going to offer 7mm Rem and 300 Win Mags a few years ago, but on a different frame that would handle them, unfortunately distributors failed to meet the preorder minumum for H&R to do the R&R on them and they were dumped right off the drawing board.

If you want a 30 cal that's different, the 30-40 Ackley would be a good one, easy to do on a modern 30-30 barrel, being rimmed, there's no problem with setting the barrel back which can be overcome real easy any way, see handloading for improved chamberings in the FAQs, I have a few improved chambered Handis that work fine.

Tim

http://4-dproducts.com/submenu/Singleshot_Chambers.htm

http://www.4-dproducts.com/ackleychart.php
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Offline clearwater

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2011, 06:23:39 AM »
Quote from: PPosey on December 14, 2011, 02:54:17 AM
I bet 30-40 krag would be a good one,,, I have thought about doing that myself as I already have a 1896 Springfield krag

I have a 30-40 that was chambered from a 30-30 handi. My handloads with the 22" barrel duplicate my handloads
in my 308 bolt gun with it's 18" barrel.  150 grain nosler at 2700 fps, 220 grain hornady at 2100 fps. These are accuracy loads a bit below book max.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2011, 06:34:49 AM »
I also very much like the idea of the 30-40 from a 30/30.

But if the OP is wanting a 300 preformance, the not even '06 ballistics from the 30-40 are likely gonna suffice. The 308 on a 444 case will duplicate 30/06 ballistics if a rimmed case is required. The less popular 308/70 (45/70 case) gets a bit more case cap but again '06 ballistics.

CW
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2011, 06:56:48 AM »
The 30-40 Ackley will push a 180gr bullet over 2900fps which bests the 30-06 by about 200fps, 220gr to 2600fps. ;)

Tim

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=383

Quote
Well-liked by it's originator, P.O. Ackley called the .30-40 AI "one of the best of the Improved cartridges." However, owing to the cartridges rimmed design, Ackley bemoaned the lack of suitable actions to properly utilize the powerful round, finding it "a very fine cartridge for the better single-shot actions."

Ackley was particularly pleased with the power of the .30-40 Improved, stating "Loads equalling the .300 Magnum have been used for a long time by owners of rifles chambered for this cartridge."

Ackley fire-formed cases by simply firing factory .30-40 Krag ammunition in an Improved chamber.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2011, 07:19:22 AM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on December 14, 2011, 06:56:48 AM
The 30-40 Ackley will push a 180gr bullet over 2900fps which bests the 30-06 by about 200fps, 220gr to 2600fps. ;)

Tim

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=383

Quote
Well-liked by it's originator, P.O. Ackley called the .30-40 AI "one of the best of the Improved cartridges." However, owing to the cartridges rimmed design, Ackley bemoaned the lack of suitable actions to properly utilize the powerful round, finding it "a very fine cartridge for the better single-shot actions."

Ackley was particularly pleased with the power of the .30-40 Improved, stating "Loads equalling the .300 Magnum have been used for a long time by owners of rifles chambered for this cartridge."

Ackley fire-formed cases by simply firing factory .30-40 Krag ammunition in an Improved chamber.

Sounds about perfect!! ;)

CW
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2011, 07:54:10 AM »
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2011, 08:15:49 AM »
Quote from: cwlongshot on December 14, 2011, 06:34:49 AM
I also very much like the idea of the 30-40 from a 30/30.

The 308 on a 444 case will duplicate 30/06 ballistics if a rimmed case is required. CW

I have a 308x444 in a Handi and I would suggest one look at the cost of the dies and brass before going this route. :P   I bought this gun to have something different but a 30-40AI rechamber of a 30-30 probably would have been a better choice.
 
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2011, 08:59:35 AM »
The 30-40 AI die set is still $60, the maximum data they list is for the Brown 97D which is only chambered in mild cartridges.

Tim

http://www.eabco.com/reload03.html
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Offline keith44

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2011, 09:11:42 AM »
anything capable of throwing a 150 grain bullet at 3,287 fps should be called a magnum.  The 30-40 Krag was the predecessor of the 1903 Springfield cartridge called the 30'03, later altered to become the 30'06 we all know today. 


Has the 30-40 AI ever been necked up to .33 or .35 cal?  A 35-40 AI might be worth a look.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2011, 09:16:36 AM »
There's the 35 Krag and the 35 Lever Power, neither would be just a rechamber on a 30-30 tho which is what the OP asked for.

Tim

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Offline PPosey

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2011, 09:17:47 AM »
That is pretty darn good from the 30-40 case!!! Would those loads not move Krag pressures up pretty high though? Or does the AI case comp for this
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2011, 09:24:40 AM »
In theory, the straight-sided Ackley case decreases breech thrust, the Krag case has a smaller case head than the 270 Win which is safe in a Handi at 65kpsi, so, again in theory, the Krag .457" case head at 65kpsi should provide less breech thrust at equal pressures.

Tim

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.O._Ackley
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2011, 10:36:15 AM »
I have read allot from Ackley and enjoy his writings, Just never looked at the 30-40 IMP, It shows HUGE promice in a Handi... ;)   
 
I may need to move this from the " Like to do" pile to the gonna do some day soon" pile right along with the 356 Winchester.... ::)
 
CW
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Offline Spanky

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2011, 11:48:32 AM »
Great... now I need to get another 30-30 barrel. Sometimes I hate you guys. ;D ;D  (in a good way)!!
 
 
 
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Offline clearwater

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2011, 11:53:45 AM »
"If you want a 30 cal that's different, the 30-40 Ackley would be a good one, easy to do on a modern 30-30 barrel, being rimmed, there's no problem with setting the barrel back which can be overcome real easy any way, see handloading for improved chamberings in the FAQs, I have a few improved chambered Handis that work fine."

I am correct in thinking that you can go from a 30-30 to a 30-30ai  or a 30-40 to a 30-40ai without having to
compensate for the the "crush fit" that un-rimmed cartridges need? In other words if I ream a handy in a rimmed cartridge to AI, I can still shoot factory ammo?
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2011, 12:26:29 PM »
Yes, but don't expect 100% case survival on the thin 30-30 brass, don't expect good velocity either, I lost over 200fps with 150gr Rem CL ammo, 2330fps before, ~2100 after the rechamber and 2 of 5 case necks split. I fire form 375 Win brass in my 30-30 AI, much stronger brass if you want to hotrod it, 125gr @ 2865fps in mine. See the FAQs for case forming info.

Tim


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Offline Default_Required

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2011, 03:08:49 PM »
Just a thought , but couldnt a 30-30 chamber be reamed to 7.62x54R cartridge ?
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2011, 03:11:01 PM »
7.62x54r has a bore diameter of .311. 30-30 is .308.
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Offline keith44

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2011, 03:29:31 PM »
If you never never ever not even once allow even a single .311 bullet to be fired through it, yes you probably could, but IMO the 30-40 Krag or AI would both be better choices.
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Offline PPosey

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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2011, 03:11:59 AM »
2900 fps with a 30-40 AI is pretty darn impressive!  3200 with a 150 is as well.
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Re: 30-30 rechamber question
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2011, 08:43:01 AM »
Quote from: kevinsmith5 on December 14, 2011, 03:11:01 PM
7.62x54r has a bore diameter of .311. 30-30 is .308.

 In the Lee 2nd edition they list the x54R in .310.. In Hornady's 7th and Hodgdon's online data its listed in .308 dia .. I would think that once checking with die makers to know if their dies are for which diameter the 7.62x54R would be fine in a .308 bore, I didnt realize ( having no experience with the Krag) that both are rimmed cartridges. So for me it would be more abolut availability of brass that would make the difference then the ballistics.
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