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Offline Dogmann

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.54 Renegade
« on: December 15, 2011, 01:03:06 AM »
I know the .54 cal TC renegade are not made anymore, but I have a line on one. Is the .54 really that much better then a .50? Who has one here and opinions ?
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Offline Landngroove

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2011, 02:50:56 AM »
If you are going to use it for hunting, and are going to use a patched round ball, the .54 is the way to go. A .54 caliber .530" round ball is approx. 225 grains weight. A .50 caliber .490" round ball is approx. 170 grains. More energy with the .54.
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Offline Rock Home Isle

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2011, 03:03:21 AM »
For punching paper the .50 calibre is everything that the .54 is...but with less recoil.
 
But under hunting conditions, the platform shifts...When taken as a whole, there is not much in the blackpowder world that can beat the .54 Calibre. The .54 Calibre is very efficient in converting powder into velocity. That is a good quality for a firearm to possess when hunting the magestic Bull Elk, or even taking a nice Whitetail.
 
Your Renegade is probably one of the finest "Out of the Box" commercial hunting rifles that a blackpowder hunter could possess.  It offers great stabilization of conical bullets and, from a personal standpoint, the ones that I have owned over the years were also very effective with a simple patched round ball.
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“Ain't this somethin'? I told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Mother Gue said to me; ‘Make your life go here, son. Here's where the people is. Them mountains is for Indians and wild men.’  "Mother Gue", I says "the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world," and by God, I was right. Keep your nose in the wind and your eye along the skyline.”
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Offline bubba.50

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2011, 05:21:30 AM »
one way i heard it put is : "a 54 will do anything a 50 will, but a 50 won't do everything a 54 will". for what it's worth and have a good'en friend, bubba.
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Offline spooked

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2011, 05:46:08 AM »
Quote from: bubba.50 on December 15, 2011, 05:21:30 AM
one way i heard it put is : "a 54 will do anything a 50 will, but a 50 won't do everything a 54 will". for what it's worth and have a good'en friend, bubba.
A 45 with a bullet instead of a ball might :-\ ...(Isaid might before ya kick my butt) ;D
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Offline bubba.50

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2011, 07:39:17 AM »
i was just opinin' on the 2 cals he asked about. and besides, my butt-kickin' days are so far in the past as to be just a very faint memory :'( . luck ta ya friends and have a Merry Christmas one and all, bubba.
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Offline IronBrigade

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2011, 12:44:46 AM »
I have had both a 50 & 54 cal renegade, I still have the 50 but sold the 54 ( which I still regret to this day ) I much preferred my 54 for hunting with patched ball.  As far as shooting conicals either the 50 or 54 will do just fine for hunting big game. Just my 2 cents :)
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Offline Dogmann

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2011, 01:01:40 AM »
Are 54 cal ball and maxi balls still available? I know it seems like 50 call
Stuff is everywhere !
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Offline Landngroove

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2011, 02:39:19 AM »
Check these sites out. Both carry MZ supplies. www.midsouthshooterssupply.com and www.grafs.com. I think you will find all you need at these two.
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Offline chefjeff

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2011, 02:48:26 AM »
All the above is true,but I sure wouldn't want to use a round ball for big game if I had another option.That fat maxi ball is a HAMMER!
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Offline Rock Home Isle

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2011, 02:52:10 AM »
Quote from: IronBrigade on December 16, 2011, 12:44:46 AM
I have had both a 50 & 54 cal renegade, I still have the 50 but sold the 54 ( which I still regret to this day ) I much preferred my 54 for hunting with patched ball.  As far as shooting conicals either the 50 or 54 will do just fine for hunting big game. Just my 2 cents :)

I sold a .54 calibre CVA that I built from a kit...I still kick myself for selling that rifle.  ???
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“Lost?? Hmmm... been fearsome confused for a month or two, but I ain't never been lost!”
Henry Frap the "Mountain Men"

“Ain't this somethin'? I told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Mother Gue said to me; ‘Make your life go here, son. Here's where the people is. Them mountains is for Indians and wild men.’  "Mother Gue", I says "the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world," and by God, I was right. Keep your nose in the wind and your eye along the skyline.”
Del Gue in "Jeremiah Johnson"

Offline Rock Home Isle

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2011, 03:01:03 AM »
Hands down the conical bullet is an outstanding projectile that offers great terminal ballistics for big game. Anyone who has cracked a book or used a conical projectile on game will see that...
 
Traditional muzzleloaders are a breed apart from the rest of today's charcoal burners...using our "Old" styled firearms puts the "Hunt" back into hunting. I have taken the majority of my elk at ranges that were less than 40 yards...at those distances...patched round ball...conical bullet...still a dead elk.
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“Lost?? Hmmm... been fearsome confused for a month or two, but I ain't never been lost!”
Henry Frap the "Mountain Men"

“Ain't this somethin'? I told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Mother Gue said to me; ‘Make your life go here, son. Here's where the people is. Them mountains is for Indians and wild men.’  "Mother Gue", I says "the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world," and by God, I was right. Keep your nose in the wind and your eye along the skyline.”
Del Gue in "Jeremiah Johnson"

Offline Rock Home Isle

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2011, 07:01:34 AM »
Quote from: Dogmann on December 16, 2011, 01:01:40 AM
Are 54 cal ball and maxi balls still available? I know it seems like 50 call
Stuff is everywhere !

I used to shoot Buffalo Bullets...They are such a great hunting projectile, but they have gotten so expensive that now I take my 50 Calibre Maxi-Balls and hollow-point them by drilling out the tip with an 1/8 inch drill bit. I have found that I can now get the same incredable performance as the Buffalo Bullet at a substantial savings...its awesome.
 
Casting your own Maxi-Balls is a good investment. As long as you have a melting pot, molds and lead, you will be able to shoot Maxi-Balls.
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“Lost?? Hmmm... been fearsome confused for a month or two, but I ain't never been lost!”
Henry Frap the "Mountain Men"

“Ain't this somethin'? I told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Mother Gue said to me; ‘Make your life go here, son. Here's where the people is. Them mountains is for Indians and wild men.’  "Mother Gue", I says "the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world," and by God, I was right. Keep your nose in the wind and your eye along the skyline.”
Del Gue in "Jeremiah Johnson"

Offline keith44

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2011, 07:35:29 AM »
The picture below is a picture of a picture featured in "The Complete Blackpowder Handbook" by Sam Fadala (4th edition)


The caption reads, in part, "...Nick Fadala (Sam's brother) was behind the camera when the bull buffalo charged them.  Sam's first .54 cal patched roundball took out the right hemisphere of the bulls brain..."



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Offline keith44

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2011, 07:58:51 AM »
With roundballs compared to roundballs, the .54 should be hands down more powerful.  The .54 ball is .530 - .535 inch diameter and weighs 230 grains (.535 diameter)  compared to the .50's .490 - .495 @ 177 grains.


Load each with 80 grains of 2F Goex


The .50 makes 1,694 fps, and 1,128 ft/lbs
The .54 makes 1,487 fps, and 1,130 ft/lbs


So it comes down to other things when it is time to choose.  The larger bore tends to be more forgiving.  With properly designed and executed rifling there is more room for fouling to build up and not interfere with the following shot(s) The larger ball makes ba larger hole, and, due to having more material, can expand to a larger diameter inside the target.  Either way there is more internal damage and the animal dies quickly.  If a marginal hit is made on the animal, the larger wound channel can make a big difference.


With paper targets, or the old game of shooting charcoal bricquetes hung on a string, the larger ball is easier to score a hit with.


Neither one is a bad choice. I cannot feel the difference in recoil between the two with hunting loads.

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Offline Rock Home Isle

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2011, 08:31:42 AM »
Quote from: keith44 on December 16, 2011, 07:35:29 AM
The picture below is a picture of a picture featured in "The Complete Blackpowder Handbook" by Sam Fadala (4th edition)


The caption reads, in part, "...Nick Fadala (Sam's brother) was behind the camera when the bull buffalo charged them.  Sam's first .54 cal patched roundball took out the right hemisphere of the bulls brain..."

Awesome post...that photo and the original article that went with it was what established Fadal as a Blackpowder Writer. Very Cool.  8)
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“Lost?? Hmmm... been fearsome confused for a month or two, but I ain't never been lost!”
Henry Frap the "Mountain Men"

“Ain't this somethin'? I told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Mother Gue said to me; ‘Make your life go here, son. Here's where the people is. Them mountains is for Indians and wild men.’  "Mother Gue", I says "the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world," and by God, I was right. Keep your nose in the wind and your eye along the skyline.”
Del Gue in "Jeremiah Johnson"

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2011, 05:26:32 PM »
Quote from: Dogmann on December 15, 2011, 01:03:06 AM
I know the .54 cal TC renegade are not made anymore, but I have a line on one. Is the .54 really that much better then a .50? Who has one here and opinions ?

Guess I'd have to ask what y'all plan on doin' with it! The .54 will make a damned fine huntin' gun fer larger game. But iffin yer jist gonna shoot small game, or target shoot, yer probably gonna be happier with a smaller bore.
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Offline smokehouserex

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2011, 06:07:06 PM »
 
 
  Hello Dogmann:
  I'm glad to see a BP Shooter who still likes the old smokepoles. I like the big bores, my choice is the 58 cal with a 425-505gr, slugs. I have a inline in 45cal for longer shots with powerbelts,scope  and 150 equivalent, with the pellets, don't like it very much but they all have their place. I have a TC Hawken in 50 cal and it is a great rifle, but my Hurrican Hunter 58 is my choice. I bought it in the 70's because it was advertised as the most powerful one availiable at the time. Proven in Africa on the Big Five. It's max recommended charge was 175 gr of FFF with a 600gr. bullet to equal the muzzle energy of a 458Win.Mag, I'm not saying that the advertisement was true but 150gr. of FFF with a 505gr. slug  is a stout load, I love them big bore muzzle loaders.   we don't need that much power most of the time but I like 45-70's too.
  Buy the 54 and knockum out.
  safety first
  HM
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Offline Dogmann

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2011, 05:49:37 AM »
I was thinking of getting a .58 but the bullet choices are better for the .54....
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Offline Ladobe

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2011, 06:33:38 AM »
I always rolled my own for all of my 32, 36, 45, 50 & 54's.   Back when I hunted BG with them I used 45RB or 50RB for mule deer, and 54RB for elk and bear.   They kilt them all just fine so I never felt a need for expensive store bought lead with fancy names.
 
Seems to me that honing your hunting skills and getting more proficient with your smokepole is far more important than worrying about what projectile your shooting out of it.
 
FWIW
 
 
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Offline johnnyb

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Re: .54 Renegade
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2011, 10:16:49 AM »
I have 2 54 cal flintlock Renegades, 1 caplock 54 Renegade, and 1 50 cal Renegade with a 30 inch  1 in 66 twist barrel.  All of em get their time in the deer woods.  It's hard for me to pass up a good deal on any Renegade I come across.
I just need to get a 54 cal sidelock pistol ( or two ) to complement all of my Renegades.
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