Blackhawk Frame changes

[rickt300]

I know this has been gone over in the past but I don't know if I have it right. So now all Regular Blackhawks are made in the new smaller frame size? The Super Blackhawk is the only one using the "large" frame size? Last with the new "small" frame size in 45 LC can I safely get 1000 fps with 275 to 300 gr. cast bullets?

[Graybeard]

Uh nope I don't think you have it right.

The NEW Vaquero is the smaller (old .357 size) frame as are the new flat top frames. But they are still making the full size BH frame as well and as far as I know still make the full size Vaquero frame but I'm not sure on that.

I have both size frames in .45 Colt purchased new within the last year or so, maybe last six months I don't recall just when I got the first which was full size frame.

I have seen loads listed by Brain Pearce in Handloader Magazine that should get you right at 1000 fps with the RCBS 45-270-SAA which he lists as weighing 285 grains. The ones I have actually weigh 270 grains. He claims the loads he lists for it are safe in even the smaller frame guns. I do not recall if he has loads at the 300 grain level for the smaller frames or not.

Since I'm not shooting anything heavier than the 270 grain RCBS bullet in mine I've really not paid much attention to his data on them.

[rickt300]

How do you like the smaller frame gun?  Are you saying the Old 357 size frame as in the old Flat top sized frame like I had in the early 70's?  A 270 grain bullet at 1000 fps or close is all the gun I need anymore for a general purpose piece. Still fun to shoot and the noise level is easy to take.  I have just about convinced myself to buy one anyway  for a new toy.  I seem to be collecting 45 caliber guns lately and I have an even number of 45 ACP and 45 Colts at present. Might have to change that.

[Graybeard]

Yes the "new" flat top guns in both 44 Special and 45 Colt are supposed to be same frame size as the "old" flat top .357 Magnums from the early days.

I have two one a Bisley 44 Special from Lipsey's and a 45 Colt which I believe was also a Lipsey limited edition. At least some of the flat top guns are regular production tho so it is possible I think to get one without it being a limited edition. The "new" Varquero as I understand it is same as the flat top but without the adjustable rear sight.

I have some load info I copied online from Handloader magazine articles by Brian Pearce. I have printed out copies to keep at my loading bench and also have the hard copy magazines out there as well. If I ever get my copier working again I'll make copies so I can put the magazines away with my others.

Brian did some pretty extensive load work ups with the flat top in both chamberings and since I have both I keep that info handy. The standard load manuals mostly don't have a lot of data at other than CAS velocity levels or Ruger ONLY levels. Brian worked up a bunch of loads he categorizes as safe in any modern gun but still within the SAAMI pressure levels.

Power Pistol, Unique, 2400 and Universal are all powders that can be used to get around 1000 fps safely as are some of the VV powders but I've never used anything from VV. I've not gotten any Power Pistol yet so I'm using the other three.

Zap me an e-mail requesting it and I can send you a copy of the files I have put together on the data on .45 Colt. I copied it and then pasted it to an MS Word file and spaced it out and changed font size to make it fit on an 8.5"x11" sheet and be readable. I didn't alter any data so didn't introduce any errors but I cannot say with 100% certainty no errors were in it to begin with. I haven't seen anything from them to indicate errors and the data was long enough ago they should have caught any by now.

[rickt300]

I have to get to a gun show, I had no idea they were trying to duplicate one of my all time favorite pistols. I have to get out more! I'm testin some kind of WiFi internet connection with this post but when I get back on my regular internet connection I will email you for the load data. Actually I looked at this "New" frame size as sort of an irritation but now I'm all over it. I know I need a new handgun now.

[Graybeard]

Here is photo of mine:



The one on top is my Bisley Flat Top 44 Special. The one with the buffalo grips is my standard full size frame 45 Colt and the one on bottom is my latest addition a flat top 45 Colt.

[rickt300]

Very nice pistols. The last Flat top Ruger I had was a 357 with the shortest barrel length available, 4 5/8 inches I believe. I remember being annoyed when they changed to what was then the "New Models" and being shocked by the change from the old style lockworks. I got over it and have owned numerous variations of the Blackhawks in many calibers since then.  The various 1911"s I have owned number at less than ten but I can't remember how many Blackhawks I have owned and had pass through my hands.

[Bigeasy]

The medium frame new flat tops are fine packing six guns.  Another option you might want to consider if you desire any hotter loads is the 50th Anniversary 44 Mag Blackhawk flat top that was made a few years ago.  It is the only recent model of flat top that was made on a large frame.  A lot of these 6 1/2 inch guns are still floating around out there at fair prices.
 
Larry

[rickt300]

I am thinking I will trade or sell my Super Redhawk in 454 Casull to pick up a medium frame in 45 Colt at the next good gunshow. I could easily pare down my gun collection so that it would actually all fit in one big gunsafe. This would take years of trades and new toy testing.

[HHI-7420]

Too all, I picked up a Lipsey(?) flattop 44spl(520-xxxx) at a gun show. Since I only shoot super blackhawks or bisley, I didn't like the angle of the hammer and put a super blk.hawk hammer on it. Easy dropin fit and works fine. The one thing I didn't realize was the grip frame is different at the point where it meets the rear of the hammer-it's thicker. It leaves a gap larger than normal-like 1/8" at the rear of the hammer. Like I said, it hurts nothing and works fine. The hammer is 30 something dollars for those who would like to make this change. Graybeard, you mentioned Brain having a article on the 44spl. What number Handloader was that? I need that article.  Pat

[Graybeard]

There are three articles by Brian two about the 44 special and one about 45 Colt. I have all three at my loading bench.

The oldest is Handloader #236 which is about the 44 Special. The other about the 44 special is 260 it is about the Lipsey's flat top 44 special.

The third (#275) is about the Lipsey's convertible flat top 45 Colt/45acp. I have one of those as well as the Bisley flat top 44 special and a standard BH 45 Colt.

[rickt300]

I just got back from the fort Worth gunshow and looked at several of the new variation on the Blackhawk. It seems to me that the blued finish on the newer guns is not as nice as the older Rugers I have. The show was oddly small this time and it looked like the dealers had not sold much.  I did not find a Vaquerro in 45 Colt with a 5.5 inch barrel but many with the 4 5/8th inch barrel. Same with the Flat top models. The guns do feel different to me by being a bit lighter and the factory black checkered grips seem much narrower than my older New Model. I decided to customize my Vaquero instead of getting the smaller frame pistol mostly because I didn't see any great leap of "better" in the new new models. I might have made the change if I had found one with a longer barrel but it doesn't matter now as the polished stainless Vaquero is now in the hands of my gunsmith.