Another Ca. mountina lion attack.

[markc]

Read this story this morning.
markc




Mountain Lion Attacks Cyclist in Calif.
 
 
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Jan 9, 8:00 AM (ET)

By GREG RISLING

LOS ANGELES (AP) - A mountain lion attacked and critically injured a bicyclist in an Orange County park and may have killed a man whose body was found nearby, authorities said.

The 2-year-old male cat, which weighed about 110 pounds, was later shot and killed, and its body was taken to a laboratory for testing, said Steve Martarano, a spokesman for the California Fish and Game Department.

Ann Hjelle had been riding with a friend in Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park shortly before dusk Thursday when the mountain lion attacked her, said Orange County Fire Capt. Stephen Miller.

The lion pounced on the 30-year-old's back, grabbed her by her head and began dragging her, said her friend, Debi Nichols. Nichols said she screamed for help and grabbed Hjelle's legs in a struggle to free her.

 
"He dragged us down ... about 100 yards into the brush and I just kept screaming," Nichols said. "This guy would not let go. He had a hold of her face."

Other cyclists in the area threw rocks at the animal until it fled.

Hjelle was airlifted to Mission Hospital, where she was in critical condition early Friday, a nursing supervisor said.

After the attack, the body of an unidentified man in his 30s was found at the top of a trail near a bicycle. Authorities weren't sure how long he had been there and couldn't confirm if the man was killed by the mountain lion, but Miller said, "it's pretty obvious that an animal was involved." An autopsy was planned Friday.

Including Thursday's incident, there have been 13 mountain lion attacks on humans in California over the past 114 years, five of them fatal, said Doug Updike, a biologist with the state Fish and Game Department.

Last September, game wardens shot and wounded an aggressive mountain lion spotted near an equestrian center in San Juan Capistrano. The lion was later found and killed, state officials said.

In 1986, 5-year-old Laura Small was attacked while looking for tadpoles with her mother in Ronald W. Caspers Wilderness Park in Orange County. The girl's skull was partially crushed and she was left blind in one eye and paralyzed on her right side.

A 6-year-old boy was mauled in the same park a few months later. County supervisors closed most of the park to children for nearly a decade afterward.

Updike estimates there are between 4,000 and 6,000 adult lions roaming the Golden State, with usually five to seven mountain lions per 100 square miles. State law prohibits hunting or killing them.

[Lawdog]

A predator they are but not a varmint.  Big Game is what they are and should be treated as such.  A weapon of any kind wouldn't have helped Mark Jeffrey Reynolds, the man killed by the Mountain Lion. The preliminary autopsy report said that Mr. Reynolds was killed by a single bite on the back of his neck severing the cord. Seeing that in that park there is no firearms allowed maybe a can of bear pepper spray would have helped. The funny part of this is the fools that got our Mountain Lion hunting ban convinced everyone in power that there were only 9 Mountain Lions left in the state and thus needed to be protected. From 9 to 6,000 or more in such a short period of time. Seems to me that the Mountain Lions in California have followed the Lords word very well by going forth and multiplying at an unheard of rate. Time to make them a Big Game animal again in California, in my opinion.  Lawdog

[Ladobe]

... From 9 to 6,000 or more in such a short period of time. Seems to me that the Mountain Lions in California have followed the Lords word very well by going forth and multiplying at an unheard of rate. ...  Lawdog

Probably because they have such an unlimited "liberal" food supply in California.   :shock:

Have had more than my fair share of close encounters with lions having grown up and lived in lion country most of my 55 years - called in a couple, and am still in awe what a perfect example of a predator it is.   Big game animal status for sure, that also deserves to be hunted fair chase only (ie, forget the dogs/horses).  

Hope it doesn't take too many more of these unfortunant incidents to wake Schwarzenegger up.  

Ladobe

[SBF]

I lived in CA during the whole mountain lion hunting debate.  It was amazing hearing all the disinformation going around.
I too agree that they should be classified as a big game animal.  They could offer a lottery for a few tags every year.  Just imagine if they had a $10.00 fee to apply for the lottery.  I'm sure that would raise a heck of a lot of money.
Don't expect anything sensible like this to happen though, you'll only be disappointed  

[Lawdog]

Californians tried a few years ago to get the ban on hunting Mountain Lions lifted and the vote was close.  We didn't get the 2/3's majority needed but we came close(instead of 66% of the vote we got 64%) enough to keep trying.  It will come up again and maybe this time we will get the needed 66%.  Man we got Mountain Lions being spotted on elementary school playgrounds(in daylight while children are in school, reported in San Jose) and near public playgrounds.  I know that on my own property I have at least one female with cubs(triplets this year) and one BIG tom as residents.  I see them all the time.  I have killed three Mountain Lions legally here in California.  All before the 1972 ban and like you Ladobe, I have had them come in while calling coyotes.  Gets real interesting when one comes in from behind you and you don't see him until he is very close.  Yeah I would like to see the Mountain Lion get big game status and have drawings for tags like they do the Desert Bighorns.  Charge accordingly seeing California needs the money so much.  Lawdog

[markc]

spotting a lion near a school playground.  THat is scary.  They are rare right now in my part of Texas, but sightings seem to be incresing here some, or maybe there is just more talk about them.  That lion that took out the female cyclist?  Do they think it is the same one that killed the other cyclist?   Not knowing alot about the lions, I am curious if the lion was killing for food, since the first cyclist wasn't completly eaten?  Anyone shed some light on that?
markc

[myronman3]

Big game animal status for sure, that also deserves to be hunted fair chase only (ie, forget the dogs/horses).    
Ladobe

 
just out of curiousity, may i ask if you have ever hunted with hounds firsthand?    i hear alot of folks say it aint fair chase;  but havent met anyone yet who still thinks that after tagging along for a chase.   fyi, i never have hunted lions with hounds.   bear only.  and it damn sure wasnt easy.  
  as long as it is hunting and not killing, i am all for it.   with dogs, without, bowhunting, gun hunting, handgun hunting...as long as it is fair.

[Ladobe]

Big game animal status for sure, that also deserves to be hunted fair chase only (ie, forget the dogs/horses).    
Ladobe

 
just out of curiousity, may i ask if you have ever hunted with hounds firsthand?    i hear alot of folks say it aint fair chase;  but havent met anyone yet who still thinks that after tagging along for a chase.

Sure have, with my uncles when I was a kid growing up on a ranch in the Rockies.   They made me go along quite a few times until I was big enough to say no and could back it up, but they never did get me to shoot one even though I was already about the best shots in the family (we didn't eat in those days if fish & game wasn't taken - and ammo was expensive).   Wasn't hunting lions, was just shooting lions.   Following the bays of the dogs on horesback until they "treed" it, sometimes several hours, then shooting the worn out lion out of a tree while the dogs kept it there - and usually with a lowly 22MAG pistol that seldom killed instantly (unks didn't want to waste a more costly 30-30 round on just a lion).   If it fell, the dogs got their final licks in extending the suffering until they either killed it or my unks could get another shot in.   Usually the lion was torn apart as it died.   Sad ending of such a majestic animal.     If you call that fair chase, we're for sure on opposite sides of the fence.


"Hunting" lions is what I do - not simply "shooting" them.   One on one with me trying to pit my outdoor skills against the vastly superior skills of him.   Been doing it for many, many years, and the scoreboard is still all in his favor.   Have had quite a few of them come in to my calls over the years that didn't offer a clear shot - slipped in and away with only a few short glimpses.   Did finally call 2 in that I had stone cold in the clear and in my sights.   But, I chose not to shoot either of them.   I guess for me at least, the challenge and ultimate rush from calling a lion in close is enough without having to also destroy the animal.   Kind of like putting that trophy trout back in the water to be caught again another day I guess (although I've never had the bejesus scared out of me by a trout).  

Anyway, opinions and hunting ethics vary - these are just mine and why I have chosen to hunt alone since just a boy.   I probably also stand alone on this fair chase thing, but that's OK too.   If I'm out there and hear you and your dogs/horses coming, I'll just find another mountain.    :wink:

Ladobe

[myronman3]

thanks for the answer...i was just wondering.  at least you are speaking from experience and have been there done that.   i dont hunt with hounds; just went along and did it once.   i didnt think it was easy at all.   but like i said, so long as it is legal.  
 to my mind, with the numbers of certain animals,  ANY hunting to get numbers in check is good hunting.   and with the way california is presently,  i dont think it pays to alienate any potential allies in the fight ahead: california lion hunters need all the friends they can get.   i dont think it pays as sportsmen to divide our ranks.  
there are alot of things i wont do hunting because i think it isnt fair-even though it is legal.   but if it is legal, god bless those that dont have a problem with it- i just will stick to my personal ethics.  
so i know what you are saying and understand your position.   catch you later!

[Lawdog]

myronman3,

Of the three Mountain Lions that I have killed before the ban went into effect in 1972, two of them were treed by hounds.  I have nothing against using hounds for the hunting.  I agree, it's fair chase.  I used to have a hound pack when I was younger but at my age a heart attack in the back country chasing after a pack isn't my idea of fun.  I leave that to you younger fellows.     Make Mountain Lions a Big Game animal with Trophy status.  Lawdog

[Ladobe]

This lion situation in California came about due to the encroachment of residential building into their traditional territory by an ever growing population in the state, and further enhanced by the ban on hunting by that states huge liberals base, allowing the lion population to grow (within certain bounds set by the lions themselves).   Any animal that is around people long enough will loose its natural fear of them - some learn to use this new resource to their advantage.   Its my guess that if the state ever does wake up about doing something about the problem and chooses the elimination of the lions as the solution, it will be state or federal government professional hunters doing ADC, and not just sportman filling hunting tags.    And I assure you, the ADC will be done by any means available to them, and it will be called legal.  

But we're talking about a special problem here, not "sport hunting".   A lion that has killed a person, or continually raids livestock, I'll agree needs to be eliminated in the quickest and most efficient way possible (yep, that's another been there - done that...worked as a JR in Yellowstone for 3 summers as a teen and doing bear control).   If that means dogs and horses, so be it.

Just hate to see anyone who loves varmint and predator "sport" hunting pass up on the opportunity to go calling for lions and experience the ultimate rush by doing it right.

Sorry if my posts have seemed "soap-boxish" - just something I feel very strongly about after growing up, living around and having many close encounters with lions all my life.   Hope some useful ideas was at least passed along.

Ladobe

[myronman3]

i feel the same way about other things;  didnt seem soap box-y to me at all.

[FireMarshal91]

Well I can't say I was not surprised by the attack, because it happened in California.  I feel sorry for the folks who got attacked and died.  However, this just goes to show what happens when people vote on changing hunting laws so that game animals can not be hunted/managed properly. Some people believe we can live in harmony with all animals and not worry about any proper game mangement.

I live in Oregon and the not so educated Portland area voters thought it would be great several years ago to prohibit hunting bears or cougers with dogs or bait in the rest of the state.  Now I guess the only way to hunt these game animals is to magicaly find them in the woods.  Or better yet, wait for one to jump on my back while riding my bike.  Guess I better get a "special season" knife tag just in case.

JC :?

[Lawdog]

UPDATE!!!

Updike estimates there are between 4,000 and 6,000 adult lions roaming the Golden State, with usually five to seven mountain lions per 100 square miles.

What Updike failed to state is that the survey taken that gave the 4,000 to 6,000 estimate was done in 1985.  State game biologist believe that the actual number could be from 2 to 3 times higher(12,000 to 16,000).  No wonder there have been over 25 reported/confirmed sightings since the attack on the bikers.  I know a way to control the Mountain Lion population, get the death row inmates to go out and give the female lions oral contraceptives and put condoms on all the male lions.  That should cure the problem.   :wink:   Lawdog