Should our foreign policy be one of isolationism ?

[Swampman]

Should our foreign policy be one of isolationism ?

No, and that's the reason I didn't vote for Ron Paul.

[ironglow]

 
  Isolationism WAS tried in the 1930s..WW2 was in the 1940s.
 

That statement is blatantly false. The United states engaged in trade with many countries during that time and before. But then maybe you are trying to redefine "isolationism". Redefining is a very common tactic of the left when they can't make a real argument.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
         Your statement that what I said was"blatantly false" of course requires me to say your statement is blatantly misinformed !  Roosevelt was an "off-again, on-again" isolationist until burgeoning Nazism and predictable events took place in Europe which showed him that eventually, the U.S. would be in both Hitler's and Tojo's sights.  Roosevelt then tried to coalesce the American people into a cohesive unit to fight the triple axis. .........Let's take a look :
   
 http://www-personal.arts.usyd.edu.au/sterobrt/hsty3080/3rdYr3080/Callous%20Bystanders/govtisol.html
 
  http://histclo.com/essay/war/ww2/cou/us/ww2us-iso.html
 
   There were so many in the house and senate who were isolationists that Roosevelt had his hands tied.  So many in congress were confirmed isolationists..that he could not rearm in any substantial way, so we were ushered into WW2 with inferior planes, tanks, rifles and almost all arms...we had to fight our way back.
  Even when the empire of Japan struck Pearl Harbor..the isolationists, in an effort to cover their mistake..tried to infer that Roosevelt somehow "engineered" the attack !  Is it just a coincidence that isolationists and conspiracy advocates often fly in the same flock ? Anyway, isolationism was so rampant in the 30s and early 40s...that even Hollywood hoped to jar the isolationists out of their lethargy:
   http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/15/121511-opinions-history-propaganda-blake-1-3/
 
  Even such a notable as Charles Lindberg was a leader in the isolationist movement, so Roosevelt was forced to address the "head in the sand" gang:
  http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/ww2/fdr070441.html

[SHOOTALL]

he saw war as a way out of depression ?
how does one isolate themselves in a world filled with ICBM's , SATALITES , GLOBAL FOOR SUPPLIES , WORLD MARKETS ,etc ?

[powderman]

Obama must sense this as his plan seems to be to make America more like the other countries of the world .

 
SHOOTALL. Good post Sir, all part of  husseins plan to destroy us. POWDERMAN. 

[Swampman]

 
 Isolationism WAS tried in the 1930s..WW2 was in the 1940s.
 

This statement is true.

[ironglow]

he saw war as a way out of depression ?
how does one isolate themselves in a world filled with ICBM's , SATALITES , GLOBAL FOOR SUPPLIES , WORLD MARKETS ,etc ?

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
  Shootall;
     True, it was NOT Roosevelt's socialist agenda which pulled us out of the depression..it was the war effort which pulled us out !  However; much as I disagree with Roosevelt's philosophy...i don't believe he either engineered or approved of the attack on Pearl ! 
 
  In his address on the issue of isolationism, I believe FDR nailed the substance of the issue when he said:
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    "tell the American people solemnly that the United States will never survive as a happy and fertile oasis of liberty surrounded by a cruel desert of dictatorship."
 
 

[ironglow]

An interesting statement being bandied about here;
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  " Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations...entangling alliances with none"
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  This basic statement was included in G. Washington's farewell address...written in 1792, published 1796   and in Thos. Jefferson's inaugural address of 1801.  I presume folks were not so concerned with plagarism back then..
 
  A very good concept and one that is well applied in ideal circumstances, but IDEAL circumstances seldom exist in this fallen world..  We should adhere to their good advice when we can..but should we accept this one sentence as "iron clad' and inviolable ?   Let's see how Washington and Jefferson both held to the idea..did they consider it "iron clad" ?
   Both Washington and jefferson were founding fathers, so to speak..agreed ?  Both served throughout the Revolutionary War..agreed ?
  As early as july 4, 1776 when the declaration of Independence was signed, the colonies started courting France for as much help as they could get.  Benjamin franklin spent years in France, trying to elicit a partnership against England....with the approval of both Washington and Jefferson.
   These efforts culminated on 10/19/1781, when the Continental Army accepted the sword of surrender from the British commander..thanks in a great measure to the French fleet..which bottled up the James river, so the British fleet could not evacuate their army. 
   Both Washington and Jefferson were grateful for the alliance with France..and rightly so ! .
 
  Does Ron Paul ever discuss this useful alliance when he brings up the well worn phrase concerning "alliances" ?
 
  BTW:  There were French troops at the Battle of Yorktown..  Below, see the British surrendering to American and French troops (American on right, French on left).  Really, somebody ought to study 9th grade history.. In fact, my grandaughter learned this in 7th grade, in her Christian school.

[BUGEYE]

An interesting statement being bandied about here;
 
  "  Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations -- entangling alliances with none."
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 
  This basic statement was included in G. Washington's farewell address...written in 1792, published 1796   and in Thos Jefferson's inaugural address of 1801.  I presume folks were not so concerned with plagarism back then..
 
  A very good concept and one that is well applied in ideal circumstances, but IDEAL circumstances seldom exist in this fallen world..  We should adhere to their good advice when we can..but should we accept this one sentence as "iron clad' and inviolable ?   Let's see how Washington and Jefferson both held to the idea..did they consider it "iron clad" ?
   Both Washington and jefferson were founding fathers, so to speak..agreed ?  Both served throughout the Revolutionary War..agreed ?
  As early as july 4, 1776 when the declaration of Independence was signed, the colonies started courting France for as much help as they could get.  Benjamin franklin spent years in France, trying to elicit a partnership against England....with the approval of both Washington and Jefferson.
   These efforts culminated on 10/19/1781, when the Continental Army accepted the sword of surrender from the British commander..thanks in a great measure to the French fleet..which bottled up the James river, so the British fleet could not evacuate their army. 
   Both Washington and Jefferson were grateful for the alliance with France..and rightly so ! .
 
  Does Ron Paul ever discuss this useful alliance when he brings up the well worn phrase concerning "alliances" ?
 
  BTW:  There were French troops at the Battle of Yorktown..

in the war of 1812, wasn't it a French pirate that kicked butt at New Orleans?
in this world, if we don't make some friends, we'll surely make some enemies.

[SHOOTALL]

Washington didn't live with ICBM's in his day one would have to load a gun on a boat and spend weeks getting here to take a shot today push a button and less than an hour later something blows up half a world away killing more people than lived with in a hundred miles of GW in his day.

[Cuts Crooked]

 
  Isolationism WAS tried in the 1930s..WW2 was in the 1940s.
 

That statement is blatantly false. The United states engaged in trade with many countries during that time and before. But then maybe you are trying to redefine "isolationism". Redefining is a very common tactic of the left when they can't make a real argument.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
         Your statement that what I said was"blatantly false" of course requires me to say your statement is blatantly misinformed !  Roosevelt was an "off-again, on-again" isolationist until burgeoning Nazism and predictable events took place in Europe which showed him that eventually, the U.S. would be in both Hitler's and Tojo's sights.  Roosevelt then tried to coalesce the American people into a cohesive unit to fight the triple axis. .........Let's take a look :
   
 http://www-personal.arts.usyd.edu.au/sterobrt/hsty3080/3rdYr3080/Callous%20Bystanders/govtisol.html
 
  http://histclo.com/essay/war/ww2/cou/us/ww2us-iso.html
 
   There were so many in the house and senate who were isolationists that Roosevelt had his hands tied.  So many in congress were confirmed isolationists..that he could not rearm in any substantial way, so we were ushered into WW2 with inferior planes, tanks, rifles and almost all arms...we had to fight our way back.
  Even when the empire of Japan struck Pearl Harbor..the isolationists, in an effort to cover their mistake..tried to infer that Roosevelt somehow "engineered" the attack !  Is it just a coincidence that isolationists and conspiracy advocates often fly in the same flock ? Anyway, isolationism was so rampant in the 30s and early 40s...that even Hollywood hoped to jar the isolationists out of their lethargy:
   http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/15/121511-opinions-history-propaganda-blake-1-3/
 
  Even such a notable as Charles Lindberg was a leader in the isolationist movement, so Roosevelt was forced to address the "head in the sand" gang:
  http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/ww2/fdr070441.html

LOL!!!! Now THAT is funny! You continue to use "military intervention" in place of "isolationism".

I'm sorry, do you deny that America engaged in trade and travel to with other countries during that time? If so...prove it! Show us the stats of imports/and exports that indicate that we shut off all intercourse with the rest of the world........ either that or quit trying to redefine words to suit your agenda.

[SHOOTALL]

some confuse isolation with protection

[ironglow]

   cuts crooked says;
 
  " LOL!!!! Now THAT is funny! You continue to use "military intervention" in place of "isolationism".

I'm sorry, do you deny that America engaged in trade and travel to with other countries during that time? If so...prove it! Show us the stats of imports/and exports that indicate that we shut off all intercourse with the rest of the world........ either that or quit trying to redefine words to suit your agenda."
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  Now that IS funny.....
   I looked carefully through my post and I did not find any place where I used the term "miliuary intervention"...you may have imagined that I said it..but look again for the words.. military intervention..  you won't find them !
 
  Perhaps we need the services of an English dictionary;
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/isolationism
 
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  Now, just for illustrative purposes;
 1) What constitutes an isolation ward in a hospital ?
 
 2) How is an Isolation cell used in a penitentiary ?
 
 3) Why would it trouble a jailbird to be threatened with isolation ?
 
    Now do you get the drift ?   
 

[Cuts Crooked]

[quote author=ironglow link=topic=251164.msg1099467369#msg1099467369
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  Now that IS funny.....
   I looked carefully through my post and I did not find any place where I used the term "miliuary intervention"...you may have imagined that I said it..but look again for the words.. military intervention..  you won't find them !
 
  Perhaps we need the services of an English dictionary;
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
     
   Collins   World English Dictionary

	isolationism (ˌaɪsəˈleɪʃəˌnɪzəm)
	— n
1.	a policy of nonparticipation in or withdrawal from international affairs
2.	an attitude favouring such a policy
	iso'lationist
	— n , — adj

Thanx for making my point to concisely! In spite of the weaseling type tactics, (denial of intent) America did indeed engage the rest of the world though trade and travel......so you made my point.......thanx again!

[ironglow]

  So you would have us buils a wall between ourselves and the rest of the world ?
 
  You just made Pres Roosevelt's point !
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  " I tell the American people solemnly that the United States will never survive as a happy and fertile oasis of liberty surrounded by a cruel desert of dictatorship."  (FDR)
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  iso·la·tion·ism noun \-shə-ˌni-zəm\    Definition of ISOLATIONISM   : a policy of national isolation by abstention from alliances and other international political and economic relations  —
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  In other words..no contact of any kind... DUH

[Dixie Dude]

Right now we really can't be isolationist.  We import too much.  IF we can bring a lot of our old industry back,  We could almost be isolationist.  In 1960 we only imported cocoa, coffee, bananas, tea, chrome, and titanium.  All of these items can be imported from South American countries.  Everything else we can make today and were made in 1960. 
 
We don't need troops in Europe or Japan.  I've heard we have several thousand Green Berets working to catch or destroy drug makers in Columbia.  We might could legalise marijuana and cocane and we might could bring these guys home.  Less trade overseas = less drugs brought in.  Worse case senario, we could grow cocao and bananas in greenhouses.  We can grow tea here in the south, but the leaves have to be picked by hand thus it comes from China or India where labor is so cheap.  Titanium we import from Brazil.  I think chrome comes from Brazil or South Africa.  Chrome is needed for stainless steel.  Titanium is used in military airplanes mostly since it is as steel but light. 

[SHOOTALL]

and who sir would run the convience stores and gas stations ? who would do the yard work , construction and be doctors ? We import people most of all .

[nw_hunter]

FYI..I corrected the spelling ..before you caught it !
  Would you like to launch into a practice of correcting one another's typos ?

Shure....Wy knoT? Since it's still visible in the quote. (obviously I caught it b4 y'all got korected)

Enough of this crap! We had a perfectly good thread going here, before you and IG decided to turn it into a he said, I said petty, childish, spitting contest that has nothing to add to the thread.


If you two want to continue with this, then do so by PM or knock it off!It's apparent, you only wish to flame each other, while the rest want to discuss the subject.