Rim Lock in my P32

[jhm]

Chris:  At present I dont own a 32 auto but have in the past I know that when loading the mag. you need to pay attention that the top round stays forward of the lower round so that they wont lock-up on you, that slight rim is enough to hold the round back.   JIM

[RollTide]

The P32 has quite a problem with rimlock, especially with hollow points.   I think it is because the angle of the back of the mag compared to the angle of the rounds is too square. There is a simple fix which can be made and used which will take care of the problem, but then you can use ONLY hollow points.  Here is a link to the design.  The guy also sells the little wires for 2 bucks if you want to go that route.

http://www.ktog.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=9ca18f3d31a22f5c88d21894564c7740&threadid=3541

I own the NAA Guardian 32acp, and carry it everyday.  Because of the angle of the back of the magazine, rimlocks are all but nonexistant in the NAA guns.  I have never had one with any ammo and I can't readily recall any G32 with a rimlock problem that I have ever heard of.

I carry the NAA G32 as my always gun.  In my view I feel better armed than with a 38 snubnose because:
1.  I have 7 bullets in the gun.
2.  I can fire more accurately with the 32.
3.  I can put 3 32 acp bullets on target for every 1 +P 38 snubnose round due to the reduced recoil of the 32.
4.  The best 32 round (Winchester Silvertips standard velocity) has a 66% one shot stop record compared to 67% for the best 38 subnose round (Winchester +P 158gr LHP).
5.  I can reload the 32 tons faster.
6.  I can carry four 10 round mags completely inside a back pocket and it just looks like I have a wallet in that pocket.  I can't even carry one 38 speed loader in any pocket without being very obvious and very uncomfortable.  I can carry two 6 round mags and no one even knows there is ANYTHING in that pocket.
7.  The 32 can go in my front pocket EVERYDAY whereas the 38 must often be left at home or in the car due to the type clothes I am wearing and the need to appear unarmed.

I think you made a wise choice going to the 32acp and I would give the "flyerwires" a chance before I got rid of the P32.  You can always sell it and get a NAA G32.  I picked up a used NAA Guardian 32 at a local gun shop for $220.  Since the NAA 380's and 32NAA's have come out, there are some reasonably priced 32 Guardians on the market, and I would rather have the 32acp than either the 380 or the 32NAA myself.

If you have not already done so, you might want to check out the NAA and Kel-Tec owners groups at:

http://www.naaminis.com/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi

http://www.ktog.org/vbulletin/

Good Luck,
Roll Tide

[Savage]

There are several P-32s floating around my circles of travel and I personally own two. I have heard for years of the dreaded "rimlock" but have yet to see it. That comming from a man who bought S&B by the thousand from CTD and sent them happily down range. This in addition to the boxes of Silvertips/Gold Dots and Glassers. I take no special care in loading my magazines. Guess we're all just lucky. I'll continue to carry mine in a back up role with complete confidence until something happens to change that. Seems to me the condition would be more  "cartridge specific" than weapon specific. Maybe a change of magazine springs would help.
Stay Safe,
Savage

[RollTide]

Savage,
Many have had experience similar to yours with their particular P32, but I made the generalization about the P32 based on the number of people who post with problems on the Keltec owners group and also the fact that Keltec has even promised to provide spacers to help with rimlock on the P32.  When the manufacturer provides a fix, the problem is definitely wide spread.   I have just never read many, if any, who had a rimlock problem with the NAA G32.  Just from my own observation as I load my NAA mags, it seems that ie would be almost impossible for rim lock to occur, unless there is some kind of mag abnormality, because the mag is designed to hold the cartridges at an angle that makes rimlock highly unlikely.  Having said that, nothing is impossible, and I am sure there is someone out there somewhere who has had a rimlock on a NAA gun that I just have not heard about.  The problem, when it does occur, is definitely a result of the semi-rimmed case design on the 32 acp just as you say.  From what I have read over at KelTec, stronger springs do help the problem, but only the spacers eliminate it in the guns where it occurs.  I am certainly glad that you and many others have had no problems.  

I am a little jealous of your ability to shoot S&B ammo.  I have several boxes, but about 1/4 of the time it takes double strikes to fire it.  Fortunately the G32 is hammer fired and not striker fired so all I have to do is pull the trigger again, but I definitely CANNOT carry S&B (which is a shame because it has such a good price and good velocity and energy numbers as well.)

Best Regards

Roll Tide

[Savage]

RollTide,
As you indicated the S&B does indeed have a hard primer. I'll normaly get 4 or 5 misfires per hundred that require a second strike. Ok in pratice but for sure unacceptable in carry ammo. I have been to the KTOG forum sometime back, but have not been there recently. There's just not that much to say about one brand of gun. It would be a good place to go if you are having problems with a Kel tec, and I suspect that's the majority of posts you'll see there. If it's luck that's keeping the P-32s around me going, I think I can speak for the dept. and say without reservation; "We'll Take It!
Stay Safe,
Savage

[RollTide]

I don't mean to imply that all or even most of the posts on the Keltec site are negative about the P32.  Many are like yourself who have never had a problem.  Many of those who have had a problem are still happy with the gun and just use a spacer to fix the rimlock.  I would say most of the posts on the Keltec site are positive.  

Many have suggested that it is essentially a quality control problem at Keltec.  It seems that the design is good when properly executed.  I have a Llama Mini Max 45acp.  When I asked people about Llama, they said the good ones are really good and the bad ones are really bad.  Mine has never missed a beat with any ammo or mag, but I guess others have had problems.  Like you, I will carry my Llama with confidence until my gun gives me some reason to change that.  I think in both cases, the main problem is quality control at the factory.  They make good guns, they are just inconsistent.  Of course I cannot think of any manufacturer who has not had some guns returned.  I think Keltec stands behind their guns though and will fix any problem that comes up.  I do believe that you can design a mag angle that will absolutely stop rimlock, and I believe that NAA is close to that.  I think the Keltec mag design may be borderline so that it works well when everything is properly assembled but has some sort of problem if quality control falls off.

Well that is my 2 cents anyway.  I don't know, maybe I am up to 4 1/2 cents on this post.  I should probably shut up.

Take care,

Roll Tide

[volshooter]

Like someone else mentioned, there is a KelTec owners group (posting board type) that is very helpful with anything about KelTec's. I learned alot from them. Stayed until someone who was a moderator put me "in the time out corner" for what he seen as a question to his authority. (I questioned his running ruff-shod over folks who posted things he didn't agree with, at no time was profanity used by me or anyone else) Good place to learn about KelTec's if you don't mind being a sheeple.
Rick

[Savage]

Vol,
I have been to the KTOG site myself. It has been a couple of years since though. A lot of first time gun owners post there and they have a lot of questions that might seem elementary to anyone who had ever fired a gun. (or saw one) Some of the moderators seem to get impaitent with the same basic questions being asked over and over. Perhaps they need to change moderators more frequently to avoid burnout. Because of the pricing a lot of first time buyers are attracted to these guns. Then there are guys like us, who have been at it since the invention of gunpowder, that recognize the quality and value for the dollar in this product line. It is far better that the first time gun buyer aquire one of these than one of the Ravens/Hipoints/Loricens out there! For first time gun owners that have to have an autoloader, I reccomend these without reservation. I also refer them to the KTOG forum to learn about their weapon. Hope they're treated well over there!
Stay Safe,
Savage

[chk]

I get around the problem by loading a Hydra-shok in the chamber and the top two rounds in the mag are silvertips. My P32 feeds without a hitch this way. I heard and read the P32 was setup around Silvertips since they have a more rounded profile. Dave

[bubba15301]

i carry a walther pp   32   never had a problem

[williamlayton]

jets akin boys--is rim lock a situation in the magazine where tha rim of the top bullet is behind or ahead of tha bullet below it rather than resing on the bullet below it? how does this cause or what does this cause the top bullet to do? jets wunderin.
blessings

[Mikey]

I dunno guys, but if I was going to carry a 32 acp it would have to be either a Walther PP/PPK/PPKS, a Sig or an older Mauser.  None of those pieces ever rim locked even with the half baked rim of the 32.  Smaller and lighter doesn't always make the best package and when you give up something for something else, you may not get your desired somethign for nothin'.  Personally, I wouldn't want to count on someone's computerized one-shot statistics with a 60 grain silvertip in 32 acp.  Even with the older 71 or 77 grain fmjs in 32 acp I would not feel comfortable unless I emptied the entire magazine.  As for stopping power, none of these experts have ever included the old Winchester factory 200 grain 38 load and pardon moi, but if I have the choice twixt 3 60 grain 32s and 1 200 grain 38 - well, guess what.  Just my 2 cents worth.  Thanks.  Mikey.

[williamlayton]

thankee ck--that was the only thing i could think of--but well i doan know a lot.
blessings

[Dave in WV]

RollTide, thanks for posting the web address for the P32 magazine modification. I just completed two mags and they are much smoother now. I didn't have a rim lock but I did notice the hydra shocks didn't want to feed smoothly. IMHO this is a great mod for these dandy pistols.

[pshaw]

Well I've had my P-32 for over a year and have shot several hundred rounds with the only failure being not holding the slide back after the last round twice (same mag).  This doesn't bother me since I rarely carry a spare.  I've heard the newer Kel Tec .380s don't have the slide lock back anyway.  The P-32 is the only gun I can conceal in its rear pocket (Henley Holster) in any type of dress.  granted it may take the entire mag to stop one person but if it doesn't even stop an attacker I have the satisfaction of knowing he will probably bleed out before he gets medical attention.

[S.S.]

Get yourself a nice AMT Back-up (380 or 45)
and be done with it! I have carried one almost since they
were first produced and have had no problems
with Fail to fire or anything else!
I can't count the number of rounds it has eaten
without a hiccup.

[Savage]

Guys,
Still no rimlocks in either of my two P-32s. One of which I had owned since 04/99. When I first got that gun a friend and I split a 1000 S&B and ran them thru our P-32s with only an occasional misfire due to the hard primers. No problems of any kind with all the other brands of ammo I ran thru it, Nada! I traded the little jewel in on the new P-3AT, (which I am loving)--My wife still has hers. No problems with it either. Carry my P-3AT everywhere, everyday just like I did my P-32. Well, off to work with the P-3AT clipped to my vest! Good night all!
Savage

[RollTide]

Dave in WV,
I am glad they worked out for you.

S. Sumner,
I have always wanted an AMT backup in a major caliber like 45, 40, 357 sig, or even 9mm.  I have always had gun dealers tell me that the guns were prone to gauling and hangups of one kind or another.  Do you do anything specail like polishing or lubing that helps you have trouble free operation.

Mikey,
I reached the opposite conclusion since I carry a 32 everyday, but I would never argue with a 38 either.  The main reason I carry a 32 is concealability, reloadabilty, and shootability.  I use a NAA G32. It and the Seecamp are every bit as reliable as the guns you mention, about as effective, and much more carryable.

Best Regards,

Roll Tide