Author Topic: question about heat treating (Read 712 times)

Flinch · « **on:** January 15, 2004, 06:39:44 AM »

I have read that heat treating w/w bullets in the oven at 450 for an hour and then putting them in cold water can make them harder. My question is, what is the difference in oven time vs. just dropping them right from the mold into cold water? The temp. has to be close, maybe a little less then 400 or so coming right out of the mold. Wouldnt it acomplish the same thing just water quenching right from the mold?

Cheyenne Ranger · « **Reply #1 on:** January 15, 2004, 07:50:20 AM »

Can't speak for the oven method but dropping them into a 5 gal. bucket will harden them. Found this out when I went to size/lube them.

Cheyenne R

waksupi · « **Reply #2 on:** January 15, 2004, 08:26:16 AM »

If you have a good, steady casting pace, and your bullets fall from the mold consistantly, you will have good consistancy in the hardness of the bullets. However, if you have a mold that hangs up a bullet occassionally, they will probably have a slight variation.

Oven tempering allows more consistant hardness, bullet to bullet, and a higher hardness potential, as the bullets are taken to near slump temperature before quenching. Water dropping demands the bullets be harder (and cooler) than this stage, to permit clean sprue cutting.

I actually believe most people try to make thier bullets too hard, to make up for some other difficiency in thier loads, either in fit or lube. I've never seen a pistol that needs a hardened bullet, or anything shooting under 1700 fps. or so. I'm able to drive bullets to the 2200 fps. range with air cooled WW's with no leading, and good accuracy. I know others surpass that with the air cooled.

The Cast Bullet Kid · « **Reply #3 on:** January 15, 2004, 12:47:44 PM »

http://www.schuetzen.net/heat_treat_ww.htm
Try this site.
cheer
Jeff

475/480 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 20, 2004, 08:57:35 AM »

water dropped ww should be sized (before) 12hrs after casting has passed ,that way you size them before they completely harden.I get a consistent BHN 23-24 with water dropped/ww,to much hassle for heat treating, Sean

sgtt · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2004, 03:58:43 PM »

How long will the temper last?

waksupi · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2004, 05:09:12 PM »

I saw on another forum recently that a guy had hardened some like fifteen years ago, and they are still maintaining in the 22 Bn range.

I believe this was posted on the Aimoo cast boolit forum

HL · « **Reply #7 on:** January 23, 2004, 07:49:19 AM »

Once they are heat treated (oven) they won't drop below 22BHN. Heat treating they way you mentioned will give you a hardness in the range of 33-35BHN. That's what I have tested mine out to after using 450degree oven for 1 hour and quenching in ice water. Super accurate.

jgalar · « **Reply #8 on:** January 23, 2004, 12:36:15 PM »

Heat treating bullets only "case" hardens them. When you resize you work the outside of the bullet effecting the hardness. Heat treat in an oven after sizing. Bullets cast and dropped into water from the mold will have the hardening softened in the area the sizing die works.

haroldclark · « **Reply #9 on:** January 23, 2004, 08:12:03 PM »

Graybeard Posting Heat Treating Cast bullets for hardness

jgalar is absolutely correct. Heat treating by direct drop to a bucket of cold water or heating in the oven and then dropping in the later will result in only a thin micro layer of hardness. When you size a heat-treated bullet, which is only surface hardened, its surface hardening will be softened by the sizing. I have been casting bullets for over 30 years. I have a Saeco Hardness tester and I have used it extensively with experiments. I have baked, dropped, aged and all but fried bullets and dropped them in water.
It really serves no purpose that I have found.

I have mixed wheel weights with 2% tin, 3 to 1 Linotype and WW, pure linotype, 50-50 WW and Linotype. Plain WWs and a little tin added will give you great bullets that you can shoot without leading up to at least 2200 fps. I use Javelina Lube and roll my sized bullets on a downward pointed board with a rag coated with Motor Mica.

Check with Veral Smith on Lead Bullet Technology right below this forum. I have followed many of his suggestions. Now, I want you to know that Veral is really one of the They Brothers that we know.

I have coined a name for those people that people often refer to and declare They Say. Who are those They people, I ask? Well, they are the They Brothers. You can never pin them down cause no one really knows who they are. We know who Veral Smith is.

I shoot a tiny 100 grain 25 caliber bullet in a 25-06 cast from wheel weights. It has one lube ring and a dog dick nose. I shoot it at 2235 fps with no barrel leading and it is deadly accurate out to 400 yards. (Rifle Silhouette Turkey).

I shoot a 30 caliber Saeco #315 bullet at over 2000 + fps in a rifle and 1800 fps + from my Encore 15" bbl. I never clean the barrels and they are as shiny as a new chromed bumper used to be. Dont tell some of your buddies that you never clean your lead bullet barrel. They will freak out. When they talk about cleaning, just nod and act interested.

Bullets that are allowed to age over a period of time will "age harden" to a point in about a month to 5 weeks. After that, they will remain at that hardness. I have tested this theory with a number of different caliber bullets. I have shot the bullets the next day after casting and the aged bullets with great success. It really doesnt do anything worthwhile, except satisfy mans need to tinker. If you must tinker, it is fine.

Harold Clark