Author Topic: Group size????? (Read 1440 times)

1911crazy · « **on:** December 11, 2011, 03:11:13 PM »

What would you call a decent group size at 25yds with a standard out of the box 1911 in 45acp?

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2011, 02:13:21 AM »

most good guns will at least shoot 2 inch with loads they like. Really good ones 1.5 and great ones an inch or less.

m-g Willy · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2011, 05:38:58 AM »

For me shooting s&w revolvers I can keep my groups around 2" + or - 1/2"
But with most factory 1911's without any work done on them, I'm looking at 3" to 4" groups.

reliquary · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2011, 08:52:20 AM »

My out-of-the-box Rock Island would put everything into 4" or less at 25 yards. Most of that was probably my fault...bifocals. My new Commander back in '82 would get 3" or less with ball.

1911crazy · « **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2011, 11:49:44 AM »

Thanks guys for stepping up to the plate and answering me. Some guys on another forum say that 6'' at 25yds depending on the gun sort of is ok. So if your under 6'' i feel your doing great. These 1911's had a bad rap for recoil and accurac for many years. This reputation is still following them with some shooters but they came a long way since then. I shooting for at least minimum 4'' groups @ 25yds with my norc project 1911. I know the 1911 will do better than i can do with it so i'm leaving some room for my personal error.

I find it odd i only got three answers with so many 45acp guys here. I'm just looking for a baseline to go by a maximum group size thats still ok.

ole 5 hole group · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2011, 02:52:45 PM »

I take it your shooting 5-shot groups from a rest at 25 yards? In my limited experience I’ve found the better ones to run 3 to 4 inches with 4” being the norm – others will do 5 to 7 inches. The trigger has a lot to do with it, as a long creep usually means larger groups everything else being equal.

Higher end 1911’s will do better, as Lloyd points out.

reliquary · « **Reply #6 on:** December 15, 2011, 08:36:06 AM »

Most of the bad reputation the 1911 picked up was from the "issue" weapons. The arms rooms in my military units were full of clunkers that would do well to stay within 8" at 25 yards, due to abuse, poorly fitted parts, and horrible trigger pulls on the part of the weapon. The other part of the problem was operator error such as poor marksmanship training....including only firing a few rounds a year for familiarization. Then somehow the weapon got a rep for being "hard to master".

The surplus weapons that became available to the public just perpetuated the reputation.

Most of us who were serious shooters "tinkered" with our issue pistols to bring them into better shape. Of the issue pistols I used over the years, I always was comfortable with 4-5" at 25 yards. I shot on post-level-AMU pistol teams at times from 67-82 and was issued NM pistols for this purpose. With them, on a good day, with match ammo, most everything stayed inside the 9 ring.

Serious competitors that I know look for 2" groups at 50 yards from a rest.

1911crazy · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2011, 07:32:45 AM »

I also want to hear from guys like me at oetime who peppered a 12'' target at 25yds. yup i thought i was doing great with my 12'' groups never focusing on accuracy while just blasting away. A 12'' group at 25yds is a human body size.

Jim_Ole_Timer · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2011, 03:05:54 PM »

Can't tell you what size mine are as I haven't shot it in a while, but its not good, probably worse then anyone here.

The Hermit · « **Reply #9 on:** December 19, 2011, 04:40:40 PM »

4" to 5" with my RIA, with 2 handed grip, ball ammo, factory sights, using 76 year old eyes. First day I brought it home, I shot a wood chuck with it. We were both surprised!

The Hermit

reliquary · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2011, 04:42:03 PM »

I've had some of those 12" days, too.

Honestly, I shoot very 25-yard targets any more. The only time I do is when I get a new toy and want to see how accurate it is from a rest. Most of my shooting now is "walk and draw" at close encounter ranges, probably 10 yards or less: stumps, rocks, milk jugs, etc in the woods at an isolated farm.

My practice is mostly instinctive...draw, look over the top of the sights, center of mass, shoot. Like I would expect in a self-defense situation?

darkgael · « **Reply #11 on:** December 20, 2011, 12:49:05 AM »

Group size. I shot this "group" the other night at an indoor Bullseye match. It's fairly typical slow fire for me - two unfortunate sevens. Ten shots at 50 ft (17yds sorta) - one hand unsupported as per the rules.

The guy next to me shot this group - his first five shots:

The point being that the gun is accurate enough...if only I can stand still enough.

Pete

williamlayton · « **Reply #12 on:** December 20, 2011, 02:16:05 PM »

I don't them to go into one hole---I want them to tear up something new.
That's my story and I'm stickin to it.
Blessings

Keith L · « **Reply #13 on:** December 20, 2011, 03:08:58 PM »

Quote from: williamlayton on December 20, 2011, 02:16:05 PM

I don't them to go into one hole---I want them to tear up something new.
That's my story and I'm stickin to it.
Blessings

Yea. thats it. Me too.

1911crazy · « **Reply #14 on:** December 20, 2011, 05:37:57 PM »

Quote from: williamlayton on December 20, 2011, 02:16:05 PM

I don't them to go into one hole---I want them to tear up something new.
That's my story and I'm stickin to it.
Blessings

I'm just starting to get decent with the 1911 not good just acceptable for me anyway. I can't count the 3 shot clover leaf because i can't put the other 5rds close to it yet. I did blow one big hole in the target at 25yds shooting all three 1911's in 45acp. I'm really rusty but i focus more now than ever before. I aim better and i'm not in a rush to blast off rounds, i've slowed down a lot now. I'm not sure how long my accuracy will last with my 61yo diabetic eyes. But the eye doctor said my eyes are still perfect so there not hurt yet. I hope my accuracy will improve before my eyes go down hill. I'm not just happy hitting the paper somewhere for now. I want each shot to count with tighter groups. . I wish my brother was still alive i'd let him shoot it then i'd know if its the gun or me for sure. I'm just not as good as he was with accuracy yet.

darkgael · « **Reply #15 on:** December 21, 2011, 02:05:19 AM »

Quote

my eyes are still perfect so there not hurt yet.

That is super. No reason that you shouldn't keep improving as long as you keep shootin'.
Pete (jes' turned 65)

mbopp · « **Reply #16 on:** December 22, 2011, 12:08:42 PM »

My Springer TRP will go 2" at 25 yards and it'll probably do better.
But if you're shooting IDPA or IPSC you really don't need that level of accuracy. Bullseye is another story.
A friend of mine has a Colt Government Series 80 that had a hard trigger but will still shoot decent 3"-4" groups.

Mikey · « **Reply #17 on:** December 22, 2011, 01:12:37 PM »

A decent group for a out of the box 1911 would be 3-4" at 25 yds with hardball. A very nice/very good group for a out of the box 1911 with hardball would be 2-3" at 25 yd. A excellent group for a out of the box 1911 with haardball at 25 yds would be 2" or under. jmtcw.

irold · « **Reply #18 on:** February 08, 2012, 06:07:54 AM »

My Springer GI would average 4" grps at 25 yards...off of bags. I put a C & S kit in it....the groups shrank ( is that a word ) considerably , like 3 inch grps. I ended up with a Springer R.O , it will do 2" grps or less with 4 rounds....but seems I always that 5th round that opens it up to 2 1/2 or 3 inches....probably me. regards ,

irold

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2012, 05:28:56 AM »

I've read the new Ruger 1911 will shoot 2" groups.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #20 on:** February 12, 2012, 01:57:00 AM »

I dont shoot hardball or any other factory ammo so i cant comment on how my guns will shoot that. I will say this i have 7 1911s right now and have owned probably a dozen more. Ive had 4 i dumped because they shot so poorly two were older colt goverments one a 45 and one a 9mm. The other two were older springfields one a commander one a 5 inch gun. For the most part other then that ALL my 1911s will shoot at least 2 inch groups with loads they like when i do my part. Even the compact ones. Ive got a 3 inch cdp that ive shot one inch groups with at 25 yards. If i had a 1911 that shot over 3 inch at 25 id be looking to find out why or bringing it to the local gun dealer to trade. I wouldnt give you a plugged nickle for a 1911 that shot 5 inch or worse groups. to me it wouldnt even be worth trying to get to shoot well. As to guys that claim you dont need accuracy for certain types of competition i say bunk! Even shooting big steal or pins fast an accurate gun can be the differnce in a hit and a near miss. If your gun is shooting 3 inch groups and your sight happens to be near the edge of the target when the trigger breaks theres a good chance that hit will end up being a miss. In ppc shooting even a 2inch grouping gun can make a x ring into a 9 real fast. I cant name one guy ive shot competition with that actually wins that isnt serious about his guns accuracy. 4 inch groups are good enough for IDPA or IPSC if your idea of a first place trophy in the expert class is the bud bottle your drinking when its over.

irold · « **Reply #21 on:** February 12, 2012, 06:38:32 AM »

Lloyd ,with all due respect , I'm not disbelieving you , but I find it hard to believe your 1911s that are shooting 2" or less are $ 5-600 , "out of the box" 1911s. Obviously, the higher priced guns "should" shoot tighter. I suppose that should have been clarified in Crazys original question. Just what is he refering to as standard. I think most mil-spec 1911s are gonna be closier to 4" than 2".....In your defense , however , I know both my 45s shoot much tighter groups with my handloads than with factory fodder.

regards , irod

1911crazy · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2012, 08:02:28 AM »

My $59 surplus USGI 1911barrel with the national match barrel bushing is shooting 1 cloverleaf per 8rd mag. I feel sometimes a good quality low priced barrel can happen if the fitting is done right. Now i want more consistanty with tighter grouping. But i'm only using the russian wolf ammo right now. I need to move on to my 200gr swc reloads next.