Author Topic: Webley Patriot (Read 3491 times)

grgilchrist · « **on:** December 21, 2003, 06:47:19 PM »

Does anyone here have one of these airguns or have knowledge of them, I haven't seen much info on them. I am trying to decide between the Patriot in .22 caliber, the Beeman RX-2 in .20 caliber or the RWS 350 in .22. From all the post I have read on Graybeard's it sounds like Beeman is considered a little bit better than the RWS guns but I haven't heard anyone mention anything about the Webley guns. I am obviously looking for a high powered springer for shooting gophers, squirrels, and nuissance birds. Any info would be appreciated.

big6x6 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 22, 2003, 01:53:42 AM »

I either own or have owned all the guns you mentioned. The Webley Patriot is the same gun as the Beeman Kodiak. I have a Kodiak in .25. I HAD a RWS 350 in .22 and still have a RX-2 in .22.

IMO the RWS 350 is not in the same class as the other two. The 350s vary widely in performance. Muzzle energy figures vary from 19ftlbs to 22ftlbs. Also, have you ever seen a 350 in person? IMO NOT the best looking rifle around. If I were to get an RWS air rifle it would be the 48/52/54 series and not a 350.

So it comes down to the Patriot/Kodiak for me. Both rifles weigh about the same with the Patriot/Kodiak SLIGHTLY lighter. Webleys sights are better than the Beemans'. The guns are the same length. Fit/finish has to go to the Webley. Best blue finish in class but the Beeman is still very good.

Two areas that is CLEARLY in the Kodiak/Patriots favor are POWER and PRICE. The Patroit is a more powerful airgun, no two ways about it and the Patroit handles that power well. In .22 it will shoot every pellet harder than the RX-2 and in .25 the Patriot REALLY shines. The Patroit can be had for $415 and the RX-2 for $489.

My vote goes for the Webley Patriot.

grgilchrist · « **Reply #2 on:** December 24, 2003, 06:01:25 AM »

Well, I orded the Patriot in the .22 cal from pyramydair.com for $415. It should be here sometime next week. Also picked up a Bushnell Trophy scope, a local sporting goods store had them on sale for just under $170. I am looking forward to shooting this bad boy.

big6x6 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 25, 2003, 02:42:17 PM »

Dude,
You done GOOD! Which Trophy scope did you get? The 4-12AO #73-4124M? What mounts did you get?

grgilchrist · « **Reply #4 on:** December 25, 2003, 05:40:20 PM »

B-SQUARE 17401 Specifically Designed with 2 Crossbars to fit the grooves of the Webley & Scott Patriot - Air Gun Base w/Adjustable 1" Rings

big6x6 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 27, 2003, 01:02:07 AM »

I've had several sets of the B-Square mounts. I'll admit, I'm not crazy about them. Lots of screws that have to be kept tight.

If you lose your patience with the B-Squares, try the BLK 263 or 260.

grgilchrist · « **Reply #6 on:** December 27, 2003, 05:57:03 AM »

I'm pretty new to high power air guns, and I've never heard of that brand until now. What makes them better than the B-Squared ones? Will loctite help keep the screw tight? If the ones I ordered don't cut it, I can always put them up on Ebay and try the ones you suggested I guess.

Lawdog · « **Reply #7 on:** December 27, 2003, 10:43:08 AM »

grgilchrist,

In 1992 I bought a Beeman Kodiak in .25. wish I knew then what I know now, I would have saved myself some money. You picked well, the Webley Patriot is a well made rifle. I won't comment on your choice of scopes as I have never used one but your choice of the B-Square mounts may make you sorry. I too have tried a few pairs of them and won't do so again. And I tried the Loc-Tite route and it didn't help me at all. Heavy recoiling air rifles(the Patriot/Kodiak is one) just shakes the screws loose and breaks the Loc-Tite up. It won't hold. I used Beeman mounts made for the Patriot/Kodiak and they held just great. Still doing so today. Get back to us here on how that Patriot works out for you. Lawdog

dave · « **Reply #8 on:** December 27, 2003, 11:25:21 AM »

If possible, send those B-square junkers back. I had a set of expensive B-Square fully adjustable mounts on a Diana 54, and after less than 100 shots, one of the caps broke right across where the screw holes are. Not even made of steel, some kind of cast zinc or something. Get the Beeman 5038 (I think thats the number) thats made specifically for the Webley with crossbar scope stop mount. They are about $50, but you won't need to replace them in a couple months like the B-Square.

grgilchrist · « **Reply #9 on:** December 27, 2003, 01:11:22 PM »

Thanks for the info, I guess I will be ordering a new scope mount real soon. Which is better Blk as 6X6 suggested or the Beeman that Lawdog and Dave like.

grgilchrist · « **Reply #10 on:** December 27, 2003, 03:00:25 PM »

Seems how I will probably order a new mount, do you guys have any suggestions on what pellets shoot the best from this gun.

big6x6 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 27, 2003, 05:34:09 PM »

I'd get the BKL 263s. They'll work perfectly. I have the BKL 260 one piece on my Kodiak but I like the 263s better. I have the 263s on several air rifles. The Beeman 5038/5038H is designed to only work on the Kodiak/Patriot and the FWB 124/127 with the cross-pin stops. The BKLs I mentioned will hold on ANY 11mm dovetail. The BKLs are also self-centering on the dovetail. Try the BKL 263s, you'll like them better than the rest.

I do know of those that use the B-Square AA mount and like it. I use the B-Square my R-7s or on a PCP, that's it. The problem with the B-Squares is there are TWENTY-SCREWS to fiddle with that must remain tight. I have also had scopes creep within the rings.

Here's a link to a pic of my Kodiak with the BKL 260.

ttp://photos.imageevent.com/chill6x6/crowhunt//websize/Crow%20hunt%20006.jpg

And here's what the 263s look like. Both are GREAT mounts!

http://photos.imageevent.com/chill6x6/bsablk//websize/RX-2%20pics%20II%20001.jpg

Best place to get BKLs are from Tim Johnston, Johnston Target Works.

http://www.johnstontargetworks.com/page/page/252773.htm

Now PELLETS...

I would try JSB Exacts(you can get them from Tim), Beeman FTS, and Crosman Premier box.

Lawdog · « **Reply #12 on:** December 28, 2003, 10:41:43 AM »

grgilchrist,

I prefer the Beeman mounts for all my air rifles. Reason is they just work without fail. Beeman backs them up without question. As for pellets I use basically two types. One for hunting and one for targets. For target work in "magnum power" air rifles I use the heavier Kodiak Match in my .25 and in my .177 & .20 I use H&N Match. For hunting I use Crow Magnums in all calibers. They just work the way they are supposed to work. Penetrate well and expand inside doing lots of internal damage killing quickly.

I love to hunt a type of rabbit we call a brush bunny. They run about 5 to 7 pounds live weight. Very hard to get head shots on them due to where they live and that they never seem to stand still. Always moving. They live near brush piles(usually prunings from fruit trees) in holes in the ground. Used to loose a lot of bunny's due to body shots with doomed or pointed type pellets. Since changing over to Crow Magnums we loose very few(this year(2003)) we lost only 6 out of over 100 taken by our whole family. Go to http://home.hiwaay.net/~ispellan/PelletTest02.html and check out the pellet test that was done and decide for yourself. Lawdog

dave · « **Reply #13 on:** December 28, 2003, 12:14:24 PM »

I think you'll find the 1 piece Beeman mount far less likely to move than a 2-piece mount. Even with a stop pin or bar, it can happen. The full length base of the 5038 provides a lot more area for gripping the rail, so it will absolutely not move.

big6x6 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 28, 2003, 02:18:43 PM »

"I think you'll find the 1 piece Beeman mount far less likely to move than a 2-piece mount. Even with a stop pin or bar, it can happen. The full length base of the 5038 provides a lot more area for gripping the rail, so it will absolutely not move."

The same can be said of the BKLs. I have the BKL 263s installed on at LEAST ten spring air rifles; one TX-200, one Pro Sport, one Goldstar, two R-1s, one HW-77, three Supersports, and one Supersport Lightning. I have used them on my Venom Tomahawk .22, one of the hardest recoiling rifles ever. Guess what, the Tomahawkl has NO stop pin holes or cross-bars of ANY type. I certainly wouldn't go out on a limb and carelessly recommend ANYTHING. I know they'll work. They have worked without exception.

So let's assume Guy "X" buys the Beeman 5038 for some fifty odd dollars. What if he doesn't LIKE the Patriot/Kodiak and sells it. What does he do with the fifty buck mount? If he bought the $35.00 BKL he has a mount that will work on practically ANYTHING.

Also let's consider the fact that the BKL can be mounted ANYWHERE along the dovetail, not just lined up with a grove.

" I think you'll find the 1 piece Beeman mount far less likely to move than a 2-piece mount. Even with a stop pin or bar, it can happen."

The answer is YES, with any 2 piece mount except the BKL 263.

Lawdog · « **Reply #15 on:** December 29, 2003, 08:47:20 AM »

big6x6,

Quote

So let's assume Guy "X" buys the Beeman 5038 for some fifty odd dollars. What if he doesn't LIKE the Patriot/Kodiak and sells it. What does he do with the fifty buck mount? If he bought the $35.00 BKL he has a mount that will work on practically ANYTHING.

That is exactly what I did. I sold my Kodiak but when I sell a scope rifle the scope and mounts go with the rifle. I tried the BLK one piece mounts and they are the ones I was talking about. They wouldn't hold up not even with Loc-Tite. I switched them over to a Gamo 880 that my daughter had(it's worn out now, POS) and it wouldn't hold on that rifle either. I gave them to my nephew for his R-1 thinking they might hold on it, they didn't. I finally threw them away. I have never had a problem with Beeman mounts and don't know anyone that has. Lawdog

big6x6 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 29, 2003, 01:51:26 PM »

"I tried the BLK one piece mounts and they are the ones I was talking about. They wouldn't hold up not even with Loc-Tite. "

Are you SURE it was a BKL 260? I have NEVER heard of a BLK 260/263 failing to hold. It is the mount of choice for Webley Tomahawks. I have never gotten Loc-tite even CLOSE to my BKLs. Something is up with that. The BKL 260 is THE mount to use under severe recoil. The only BKL one-piece mount that MIGHT not hold would be the 254 which is for LIGHT recoiling air rifles, pcps, or rimfire. The BKL 263/260 WILL do the job.

grgilchrist · « **Reply #17 on:** December 29, 2003, 03:01:45 PM »

I hope it holds, I ordered one on Sunday. I'll let you know if it doesn't

big6x6 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 30, 2003, 03:53:40 AM »

Which one? I don't think you'll have any problems with either the 260/263.

grgilchrist · « **Reply #19 on:** December 30, 2003, 06:44:53 AM »

I went with the 263.

Lawdog · « **Reply #20 on:** December 30, 2003, 10:28:22 AM »

big6x6,

I don't remember which model number the mounts were. This was back in 1992 when I bought the Kodiak and these were the mounts recommended for the Kodiak. I tried everything I could think of and what a gunsmith friend could think of to get those BLK's to hold. Nothing worked. Sent a letter to the company and no response. Tried to call them on the phone and either no answer or was hung up on. To me that says the company won't back their product. To me it's "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" and I have no intention of being the fool so I give them no second chance. If I still had the mounts or the box they came in I would tell you what model they were(in fact if I still had them I would send them to you if you wanted them and save me the trouble of throwing them away) but they ended up in the scrap metal bin to be turned into something else that maybe would work.

By the way it's the Kodiak that I had that taught me that not just any Leupold scope will work on "magnum" springers. Do not get me wrong here, Leupold makes great scopes and I recommend them to all, just be sure the one you put on your springer is suited for use on them. Leupold fixed the scope I had but they got to tell me about using the proper equipment for the job. Lawdog

grgilchrist · « **Reply #21 on:** December 31, 2003, 05:44:59 AM »

Lessoned learned - Don't buy B-Squared mounts - what a piece of crap! I got my Patriot in the mail yesterday, so this morning I set up a target at 10 yards in the garage. The first three shots were all within a 1/2 inch and I made scope adjustments, fired a couple more shots and then it started shooting all over. I check the scope mounts and sure as heck the windage adjustment screw is a little loose, so I tightened that sucker down thinking maybe I just had not tightened up when I first mounted it. A couple shots later, same thing. Never will I buy B-Squared again.

Question: My Patriot seems to be dieseling a little, how long will this usually last for and how much if any does it effect accuracy?

I just hope the BKL I ordered works better.

crossbow · « **Reply #22 on:** December 31, 2003, 11:10:01 AM »

Theoben of England has an excellent scope mount called the Dampa mount.I had constant problems with other mounts ie losing zero scope movement etc,however since I fitted my guns with dampa mounts no more problems,It has some kind of rubber shockabsorber.Theoben does mail order from their website.As regards dieseling in the Patriot it may go with time but it may also be a sign that the Pellets are too light,The Patriot is a powerful spring airgun and such guns often need a heavy magnum class pellet in the same way a high draw weight bow needs a large heavy arrow to shoot smoothly and quietly.Dieseling always affects accuracy in that it will increase velocity mostly its affect will be a mixture of high and low hits on the target

big6x6 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 01, 2004, 02:42:28 PM »

"Question: My Patriot seems to be dieseling a little, how long will this usually last for and how much if any does it effect accuracy?"

What pellet are you using? USUALLY going up a notch in pellet weight helps control dieseling. It should decrease within 100 or so pellets.

A SLIGHT amount of DIESELING is actually what a healthy high powered air rifle should do every time it is fired. That's exactly how they achieve such high velocity. CONTROLLED and CONSISTANT dieseling. COMBUSTION is when you hear a loud "CRACK!" when you pull the trigger. This can ruin a good spring gun. It usually only happens a time or two with a new gun.

"I just hope the BKL I ordered works better."

It will.

big6x6 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 17, 2004, 02:20:19 AM »

grgilchrist,

"I went with the 263"

What do you think of the 263?

grgilchrist · « **Reply #25 on:** January 17, 2004, 05:34:20 PM »

So far so good, they seem to be a very good mount.

Southern_Gunner · « **Reply #26 on:** January 23, 2004, 07:17:49 PM »

Have any of you had your Patriot/Kodiak tuned? I may go with either a Maccari tune kit or a Theoben conversion. What do you guys think?

big6x6 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 24, 2004, 03:22:24 AM »

My Kodiak .25 is not tuned. It really doesn't seem to need it. Most Webleys of late don't seem to. I have shot a gas ram conversion and it did shoot nice but WAS harder to cock.

Southern_Gunner · « **Reply #28 on:** January 24, 2004, 09:03:25 PM »

The Patrtiot shoots very good....and accurate.....JM says his tune kit will take out all the vibration......which should make it ever more accurate....and boost the power some as well.