Author Topic: Handi cost me some Wolves (Read 1846 times)

Sourdough · « **on:** February 22, 2012, 08:45:18 AM »

Found where a Handi is at a disadvantage. Lying on a ridge in just over a foot of snow, temp around zero. To get a shot had to crawl just over the crest. Looking down at 6 Wolves feeding on a dead Moose. 510 yards, 480 corrected for elevation. Shooting a 25-06 Handi, with 110gr Nosler Accubond, in front of 56gr of Retumbo. Using a bi-pod on the front of the gun for stability. Took the shot, whap the farthest Wolf jumped in the air, then fell over kicking. The rest instead of running, squatted down looking around. I opened the gun, click the empty is gone. No response from the pack, they are still looking around. Rear of gun is now up in view, but it and the scope is white. I'm all covered in white, so they can not see me in the snow. Gun and scope are white as well. Can not replace the shell with my gloves on, they are too thick. Kept dropping the shell, and was having a hard time picking it up in the snow with gloves on. Was thinking all the time, if I had a bolt gun I would not have this problem. I could just work the bolt and take a second shot.

Took off my glove, reached up to put shell in gun, movement was caught. They are all off running in the opposite direction. One wolf stopped about 100 yards out. Took a second shot, hit that wolf in the rear area. It fell, but got up dragging one back leg. Snow shoed back to the snowmachine (Alaskan for snowmobile). Drove over and picked up the dead wolf, big male. Then started tracking the injured one. Suspected I had the Alpha male, and that the injured one was the alpha female. Found the pack over in the next drainage. All but one ran off while I was about a 1/4 mile away. The one kept trying to run but was stopping, unable to handle the deep snow. I rode up and shot it at 25 yards with my .22 pistol. Did not see any more Wolves for the rest of the day. Came home frustrated. At $400.00 a pelt can not let this happen again.

On my way back through Fairbanks last night, stopped at Sportsman's and bought a Stevens 200 in 25-06. That was the only 25-06 they had in stock. Yea I know, bad trigger, bad stock, but they can be replaced. I had bought one last year, but sold it due to those issues. Dropped it off at my gunsmith's last night, shocked him when I pulled up to his house at 8PM. He is replacing the trigger, and putting a brake on it, just like the one I have on the Handi. I ordered a Keystone thumb hole stock from Cabela's this morning, express shipping.

Going out again tomorrow, and taking the Handi, maybe I can do better. Snatched a pair of the wife's thin white gloves to wear under my mittens.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2012, 08:52:17 AM »

SD,

Me personnally I wouldn't try this in zero degree weather, but I friend of my hunts with a handi with extra shells in his pocket. When more than one deer is available he puts the second shell in his mouth, shoots and then immediately reloads, gloves or no gloves. His gun is an extractor model. I have seen him do it at the range and he is quick and I have seen the dead deer after he has done it in the woods.

Nice shootin' by the way.

BB

OSOK · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2012, 09:47:40 AM »

Sourdough, I bet you could modify a Bianchi Speed strip to let the .25-06 cases slide in and out. A couple in a strip held in the off hand, or in a ammo carrier on the butt would hold them nice and neat. Just grab the strip, feed the round and slide the strip off. Having lived in your neck of the woods before I understand the cold and the bulky mittens. You might have to make your own ammo carrier (to get it in white), but it beats missing a shot.

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2012, 10:19:49 AM »

SD,
Great shooting, love reading your posts, especially the hunting ones. I would give the idea mentioned by OSOK, some thought. It seems like it would work.

tacklebury · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2012, 11:32:20 AM »

Sorry to hear your trouble, but good shooting. I wear strip search leather gloves under my big arctic mittens. They are skin tight, thinsulate lined with 40 oz, so they do protect some from the cold. Nice thing is that when they come outta the mitten, they don't freeze up like cloth gloves. Once a year I scoop up some mink oil and while wearing them work it all over until it's completely absorbed into the leather with my body heat and friction. They shed water nice and give a good grip on brass even in the cold.

Quick shooting is one time when an ejector barrel might do you better too. With a 30-30 ejector or my 12 ga. ejector, I can put 3 shots downrange with irons in less than 5 seconds. I hold my second bullet backwards in my off hand and use finger tips to take shot one, hit the release, making sure my eye isn't where the ejecting round will be, load the second, aim and shoot while off hand reaches for the next brass in my buttstock holder and then ejects smoothly and 3rd is in place. I actually got 3 off and on target better than my little bro using his 870. hehe

The lighter colored ones might work better for snow. I have the black.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/thinsulate-insulated-gloves-by-guide-gear.aspx?a=374813
these might work well too, albeit might be hard to get outta the mitten.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/jacob-ash-neoprene-fishing-glv.aspx?a=726507

Airsporter · « **Reply #5 on:** February 22, 2012, 11:37:58 AM »

Police and military snipers don't use single shots for many reasons. They are a huge liability where multiple targets are involved and/or the type of conditions you describe, not to mention accuracy potential. You could buy a really nice bolt gun with a target grade trigger for 2 pelts or less.

Flemc1 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 22, 2012, 12:00:52 PM »

great read Sourdough. But .... The rifle didnt missfire , the rifle didnt fail to eject the spent round . But ..... you took it from the safe out on a wolf hunt

Still gotta love the Handi

Catshooter45 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2012, 12:15:16 PM »

Four hundred bucks a pelt? Wow. Good luck on your next trip out.

Cat

gendoc · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2012, 12:18:41 PM »

rog, i hate that tha handi won't do for your needs. but i will be completely honest with you...... you always have great stories no matter how they turn out..... i think you could write books about your adventures and make much more money.
i will never forget the one about you talk'n to tha grizzly in tha shadows with only a 17hmr
and wondering about nose cartilage............

truly one of your greatist.
please give us reports of your stevens and we will be waiting for another story, no matter what you shoot with !!!!!!!!!!!!!.........

ihookem · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2012, 01:24:28 PM »

At 400 bucks a pelt You could have made some real bucks. How many wolves a year do you shoot?

geezerbiker · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2012, 01:36:58 PM »

A couple of .308 stripper clips loaded with only 3 rounds each will speed up your reloads while you're waiting for the Stevens to be fixed up for you.

I used to carry them for deer hunting with 4 rounds each of '06. They fit well in a shirt or jacket breast pocket and are easy to handle...

Tony

twoshooter · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2012, 02:00:07 PM »

I don't think anybody holds that against you, at $400 a pelt, that is not sport or subsistence hunting , it is commercial hunting, a slightly different proposition.

shaner · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2012, 02:14:30 PM »

Quote from: twoshooter on February 22, 2012, 02:00:07 PM

I don't think anybody holds that against you, at $400 a pelt, that is not sport or subsistence hunting , it is commercial hunting, a slightly different proposition.

have to agree with this , there are reasons bolt and semi autos are around

tallyho · « **Reply #13 on:** February 22, 2012, 02:42:13 PM »

Sourdough, it is not my intention to be a nit picker or start a flame war, but I have a bit of difficulty with the subject line "Handi cost me some Wolves".

As many others have said, you have great stories Sourdough, and I love to read them. That being said, the way I see it, the Handi was doing exactly what it was designed to do. Fire one shot at a time, as quickly as the shooter reloads and re-aims it. This rifle didn't actually cost you any wolves, your choice of tools, the rifle, the gloves, cost you the wolves.

By purchasing a new bolt action repeater, i.e. choosing a different tool, you may very well increase your take of wolves in another situation like this.

BTW, I am not an advocate for using a Handi, or any other 'tool' in all situations, just that I kind got hung up on that subject line/headline after reading the whole story.

I must confess I had a similar thing happen to me a few years ago with a 30-30 Topper. Missed the first shot at a mule deer (I was shooting downhill and forgot to compensate). It just stood there while I fumbled with gloves, cold fingers, a round dropped in the snow, fumbled to reload another (the latch probably got a bit of moisture in it 'cause it was a pain to open, and I dropped a couple more rounds). And while I was getting all this learning the deer just turned and slowly walked over a rise into the trees. Yes, I might have put that venison in my freezer if I had taken a repeater, but I didn't take the BLR 308, or Husqvarna 7x57 - I took the Topper, because it was my most accurate rifle, and the easiest to carry.

The Topper didn't miss the shot, or fail to reload effectively, all that was completely my doing

revbc · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2012, 05:18:17 PM »

Sourdough,

Think I would look at the AR10 platform, maybe 7mm-08. Don't know how it would hold up in the extreme cold, but the military relies on em. They are as accurate as a bolt gun and you sure could get some shots off fast.

Sourdough · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2012, 05:24:36 PM »

The Handi worked just as it was supposed to. The space between the scope and reciever was just too small to get my gloved fingers into. To keep my fingers warm I needed heavy gloves. To break the reciever open, it rises four inches I think, putting it above the snow, and in view of the quarry. This is the first time I have been unable to reload with no problems. Speed was not an issue, since the wolves were hunkered down looking, and not moving. It's just I chose the wrong gun to take with me on that trip.

The gunsmith called saying he will have the new gun ready tomorrow morning. I'll take it to the range after I pick it up. Mount scope, change stock, sight in, check accuracy, and velocity of current load I shoot in the Handi. Putting off going out tomorrow, got a call from the Hospital. They moved an appointment up from Friday to Thursday. That's OK since it gives me time to work on the new gun. New trigger and break, I'll borrow one of Sky's stocks till mine comes in. In April the Bears will be coming out, I'll go back to carrying my 30-06 Handi.

By The Way, all my Handi's have ejectors. I will not own one with an extractor. Have only have one fail to efect. My .223 Ultra failed second or third shot. Sent it back to H&R, they fixed it. No problems since. Love my Handi's, but now they have one limitation. The 25-06 will still be my back up gun for wolf hunting.

Speaking of Wolves, Sky drove my truck to the University over the weekend. His truck was in the shop. When he got there he was accosted by two women over the Wolf in the Crosshairs on the doors of my truck. They kept yelling that they hoped his hands and feet fell off. Confused the boy real bad, took him a while to realize what they were upset over. Once he made the connection he just blew it off.

trotterlg · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2012, 07:30:05 PM »

If I were in your place I would probably be looking at a nice AR in 204 ruger. Could cost you a little to get it to shoot close to a bolt gun, but when you get it dialed in you could have had them all. Guns are just machines, get the one that is up to the task you have. You did very well to get two. Larry

TopperT · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2012, 09:55:26 PM »

I just got back from the upper top of the Allagash Wilderness in Maine. It was -16F on Tuesday, last week, when we took my jeep over to one of the deer yards. LOTS of deer and two Coyotes.

I got out of my Jeep and got my ..223 ready and poped the first big Coyote. It was a moving shot going to my left. There were brush piles and some trees in the immediate area, from where the skidders had been working previously, but I was able to pick out my running target and fire. I too needed a fast second shot and tore my right glove off with my teeth, and grabbed a round off the shell carrier on the stock. BUT it did take a long time ( counted in "running coyote seconds")

And.......with very cold hands I wish I had an ejector rather than an extractor as I fumbled with the shells. It would have made my f/u shot easier to have had a clear chamber. My solution was to pick up an ejector .223 on my way home.

Sometimes a single shot is just that. I love your posts, I love Alaska and while far northern Maine isn;t the bush, last Monday & Tuesday did remind me of my trip up to your area to follow the Iditarod in 2004. -16F is cold. No doubt about that.

\
Great story BTW. $400.00 per!!!!! WOW!!!!!!

Land_Owner · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2012, 12:55:21 AM »

There are always "conditions" to every hunt and this time it was finding 6 wolves at one time with a single shot rifle in hand. How often does that happen for you? When you carry the Stevens, you may or may not experience the following going forward. The "karma" of the situation is multiple round gun - single wolf...single shot gun - multiple wolves. Murphy's Law in action.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2012, 02:04:55 AM »

As always Roger, great story, at least you paid for the day. Two in the hand and all. That's still better than the vast majority of us would or could do under same circumstances!!

I agree with you, you know the handi did not fail you. The situation was one not suited for the equiptment at hand. But you did alright! Even with a bolt I would guess the bast you would have done was one more.

I am quite jealious of your abilities to hunt at such ranges. 200 is longest public range here. There is a 600 in the state. I have been there but not allowed to shoot on it.

Keep these stories flowing and you really should write them down in a book. Memoirs or some such...

Stay safe,

CW

petemi · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2012, 02:55:13 AM »

TopperT, I'm glad you had some luck and excitement on your trip to the Allagash.

Pete

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2012, 05:20:24 AM »

Quote from: Land_Owner on February 23, 2012, 12:55:21 AM

There are always "conditions" to every hunt and this time it was finding 6 wolves at one time with a single shot rifle in hand. How often does that happen for you? When you carry the Stevens, you may or may not experience the following going forward. The "karma" of the situation is multiple round gun - single wolf...single shot gun - multiple wolves. Murphy's Law in action.

Well said, and well thought out! Wish I would have thought of it that way.

Sourdough · « **Reply #22 on:** February 23, 2012, 08:09:29 AM »

Land_Owner: Actually quite often since wolves run in packs. I usually don't have to go quite so far over and can stay better concealed. I carry a Mini-14 with a 10 rd magazine, but it is no good beyond 400 yards, then it's questionable, but I have many follow up shots. My partner says I spray the area.

cwlongshot: When you find wolves on a kill, they are usually down in a valley, but still above treeline. Nothing to hide behind, all the brush is covered with snow. Winds are sometimes a problem, but deep snow is the main factor. Shots will be 200 to 700 yards. You just can not get any closer. The 25-06 will handle that range of distances, just barely. I have been surprised that it actually performs better than my 30-06 beyond 500 yards. I hold my shots to 500 yards with the 06. It's taken years and lots of time at the range and afield to get to where I can shoot consistently at ranges beyond 300 yards.

TopperT: Good going with the Coyote. Now you know why I won't own an extractor Handi. Cold fingers just can not pull empties. When I open that action I want that empty gone. Brass is cheap when my life may hang in the balance, I live in Grizzly Country. I can usually get off a second, and sometimes a third shot when we jump animals on the trail with the Handi's. But I'll be honest, if I think there will be the chance of jumping a wolf or two along the trail, I put the mini-14 on the handle bars.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #23 on:** February 23, 2012, 11:06:07 AM »

OSR - Just trying to "ease his pain".

The sun glint off of the frozen lake caused a sharp and momentary pain instantaneously watering the shooting eye...pulling the shot to the left and a clear miss. You know the drill.

I am jealous of SD's abundance of game and envious of his shooting abilities. I doubt I could stand the cold. It is a well know fact that a Florida Native will freeze to death if the temperature drops below 72-degrees F. That's a Fact. I have done it several times!

demented · « **Reply #24 on:** February 23, 2012, 10:55:39 PM »

Frankly I'm amazed that you have a Handi-Rifle capable of making 400 plus yard shots! I've yet to have one I'd rely on much more than half that distance. I guess I really have a lot to learn about making one shoot.

ibgp3 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 23, 2012, 11:43:57 PM »

Quote from: Sourdough on February 23, 2012, 08:09:29 AM

I carry a Mini-14 with a 10 rd magazine, but it is no good beyond 400 yards, then it's questionable, but I have many follow up shots. My partner says I spray the area..... Shots will be 200 to 700 yards. You just can not get any closer. But I'll be honest, if I think there will be the chance of jumping a wolf or two along the trail, I put the mini-14 on the handle bars.

I'm sure that you have chosen the Mini-14 over the AR15 for a reason, so I won't make any suggestions for the AR. Are you aware that a Mini-14 is available in 6.5 Grendel? In an AR the grendel will reach out to 600 yds for me, I'll bet you can make it reach 700. A mini-14 in 6.5 might just make you get rid of the Stevens as fast as you got it.

zoner · « **Reply #26 on:** February 24, 2012, 02:03:15 AM »

another great story. When you decide to write and publish your memoirs I would surely be a buyer......Mike

watsisname · « **Reply #27 on:** February 24, 2012, 02:03:56 AM »

Good luck with the Stevens! I bought one last year in 7mm magnum and I love it. I might of gotten lucky with the trigger, it is nice and smooth, breaks at about 2 1/2 lbs. I bedded the stock at the barrel lug area. It's a great shooter for the money.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #28 on:** February 24, 2012, 02:13:17 AM »

Roger copy Roger.

I have read allot of what these '06 classed cartridges will do at distance. I decided on the 6.5/06. Technically a 6.5/270 as the OAL and shoulder differed ever so slightly from the 30/06.
Any how I built it for long range med game rifle hunting "out west". I cut the throat for optimally seated 125/129g slugs. It shoots like a house afire but I have only shot it to 200y. At two hundred it's still at or just under 1". I kept the barrel long at 27" for a bit extra FPS and it delivers. It's been awhile but IIRC 3300 fps with a 125 Nosler BT.

I have taken one head of game with the rifle... I small ram at almost 250y my longest shot. I totally mis judged range but the flat trajectory evened that out. Not a bang flop, but a turn and a two stepper and tipped on his nose.

I was most impressed with what the 264 dia did at range and the fact that it excelled even at slower velocities.

I have since shot this gun with 142g match bullets and it's such a great shooter it's scarry.

I would LOVE to see what someone like you could do with it!!!

CW

Sourdough · « **Reply #29 on:** February 24, 2012, 05:50:23 AM »

Finding a place to practice has been my problem when I lived in the Lower 48. Up here the Borough has a range in town that goes to 300 yards. Once I have worked out to that range with a gun I move out to the Tanana River bed.

The Tanana is a nasty, glacial silt laden river, and no one likes to go out there, not a place to fish or boat. Braided in that area, to the point it is impassiable by anything but air boats or hover craft. We find a bank, set up our targets, back up as far as we want to and shoot. The fact we are shooting towards an Army Artillery Impact area, that is OFF LIMITS makes us feel better as well. A good rest is a must, and just practice, and make corrections as needed. Long distance shooting is not hard, it just takes practice and consistancy. A good understanding of where the bullet is going to be at different ranges comes from experience. Ballistics tables will tell you, but seeing it is the best, and puts it where you can understand it better. To me, a good dialable Tactical scope is a must. I know some military guys that use the Mil Dots, but my math is just not that good. I've tried them, but I got rid of them when I just could not work with them.

Nikons Ballistic Plex also works good out to 500 yards, if you set down and develop a load that matches calibration of the scope.