Author Topic: 45 acp help  (Read 519 times)

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Offline handirandy

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45 acp help
« on: February 23, 2012, 03:30:07 AM »
Acquired about 300 pcs. of once fired RP brass.  Brass is so thin it won't grip the bullet when seated even with a generous crimp.  Inside of case measures .4505 after sizing and bullets I am using measure .451.  Don't own a taper crimp die.  Will that help?  Can't find a factory crimp die for this cal. Any help appreciated or I will have a lot of scrap brass.
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: 45 acp help
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2012, 04:14:46 AM »
handirandy, a taper crimp is the standard crimp die for that caliber. What is the thickness of the brass? Just measured a couple I had lying around, thinnest was speer brass at .009, and the thickest was winchester at .012. gypsyman
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 45 acp help
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2012, 04:28:31 AM »
I agree with gypsyman, brass is different. Again, you have a taper crimp built into your seated die.

This die set comes with three dies, are you using the other die? If improperly set up it can cause these problems. set it up to do bare minimum in order to seat the bullet.

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Offline mbopp

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Re: 45 acp help
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2012, 03:53:56 PM »
Unless you're over crimping the brass you could try cast bullets, the standard size is .452"
Yeah, I can tell when I expand a R-P case, it takes a lot less pressure on the press handle. I still shoot them though.
Or chuck your expander in a drill and polish it down.
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Offline handirandy

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Re: 45 acp help
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2012, 03:57:49 PM »
Measured brass.  It mics @.0105 - .0115   using the crimp die.  Have it set till it bumps the shell holder.  My die set is an old non-carbide RCBS set that I bought used years ago.  The crimp die puts a roll crimp on. I crimped some of these till it had a crimp like I put on my 45-70 and the bullet still slipped.  I even ran some back thru the sizing die after the bullet was seated and they still moved. I'm wondering if the dies are worn.  Resized cases hover right around .470   If I am doing the math correct it looks like they aren't being sized enough.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 45 acp help
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2012, 11:46:41 PM »
Measured brass.  It mics @.0105 - .0115   using the crimp die.  Have it set till it bumps the shell holder.  My die set is an old non-carbide RCBS set that I bought used years ago.  The crimp die puts a roll crimp on. I crimped some of these till it had a crimp like I put on my 45-70 and the bullet still slipped.  I even ran some back thru the sizing die after the bullet was seated and they still moved. I'm wondering if the dies are worn.  Resized cases hover right around .470   If I am doing the math correct it looks like they aren't being sized enough.

OK, a couple things...
 
All of this puts the dies themselves in question. I would start with a thorough disassembly and cleaning of all the dies. I like auto parts cleaner and a good stiff properly sized barrel brush. Then I have a ultra sonic cleaner to finish it off. Look for lead buildup in the crimper and oil and powder res in the seater and flaring die.
 
A question; What die do you have set till it bumps the shell holder? The SIZER/Decapper is the ONLY die that could/should do this!
The second die, the mouth flaring die, should be carefully set so as to only flair the case mouth "just enough" to aide in seating a bullet. Even then, I only use them for lead bullets where it might shave the sides off the lead otherwise.

 
Remove the stem, insert die into press about half way. Tow place an empty, sized brass case in the shell holder and run it up into the die. Reinsert the stem until resistance is felt. This will take some trial and error, but slowly screw in the stem and check to see how much the brass mouth is flaring. Keep a jacketed bullet of correct diameter for the brass case at hand and check with every adjustment. You want the heel of the bullet to just sit into the case mouth with out seeing any case flair past the sides of the bullet. IE DON'T make a trumpet of the brass. Flair "just enough" to allow square and easy bullet seating.

Personally I like to make a "dummy" loaded round. (NO powder and NO primer) and keep that in the die box for future setups with that bullet. I make one for each new bullet I load. Carefully compare it to a factory cartridge.

The last die is the seater/crimping die. This one should be set twice. Here is one way, take that dummy cartridge. Insert it into the shell holder and run it up into the press. Now remove the seater stem from the die, loosen the locking ring and screw the die into the press until resistance is felt. DO NOT FORCE. Screw down lock ring and tighten. Now insert seater stem, again slowly until resistance is felt and stop and apply lock ring. This is a rough setup for SEATING. You will need to adjust a bit based on bullet profile and the OAL your looking for.
Once all cases are re-sized, flared, primers seated and bullets seated, THEN and only then do you go back to the seating die and re adjust to apply your taper crimp. The 45 ACP head spaces off its case mouth in the chamber. You do NOT want such a crimp as to smoosh the case mouth into the bullet as you may on a 45/70. This will leave the brass held to a variable head space by your ejector and will lead to accuracy and functioning problems. Setting the crimp you only want the die turned into the press a little bit, maybe a 1/4 to a 1/2 turn. Do a little and look at your cartridge. Compare it to the factory you used for setup.

 
 
Running loaded bullets back into the re sizer die is VERY DANGEROUS and should never be done. Many sizer dies ESP RCBS have a tiny seater stem a fraction of the size of your bullet. Should that primer be punched, that bullet cannot get out of the die and you my friend have a little bomb, just inches from your chest... NOT a safe situation...
 
While its possible for the die to be worn, its rather unlikely. They are quite hard, try to file on one... The file slides right off as if filing glass.
 
Good luck,
 CW
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Offline handirandy

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Re: 45 acp help
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2012, 02:53:13 PM »
Evidently the dies were the problem.  I got a RCBS carbide set and ran all brass thru the sizer.  Fixed them.  Then used the included taper crimp die.  Worked perfectly so i guess the old dies were just worn out.  Like I said earlier, they were used when I got them years ago so I will keep the seater and use it for that and taper crimp as a separate operation and file the rest for parts.  I have time for the added step so no problem there.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 45 acp help
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2012, 11:21:37 PM »
I am glad to read you got the problem solved!!
 
CW
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