Thinking of either the 309 or 375 in a 23'' contender carbine , wonder how much more the 375 with 220 gr. would kick compared to the 309 with 165 gr. There's pros and cons for both , 375 is avail. in a factory bbl. and I already have dies and I could use it for elk , the 309 would be milder and flatter for deer but I would have to do a re-chamber but its a very nice round.