Author Topic: h and r survivor shotgun in 12 gauge?  (Read 1650 times)

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Offline Similkameen Hunter

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h and r survivor shotgun in 12 gauge?
« on: March 03, 2012, 09:02:05 PM »
with the a 20" barrel.


when was this shotgun last manufactured in 12g?


thanks

Offline dogtagg88

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Re: h and r survivor shotgun in 12 gauge?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2012, 10:27:07 AM »
I have never seen one, not sure if they ever made one.  However Choate has a 12 ga survivor stock for sale, so you could make your own.
Topper 12,16,410  TrackerI 20ga  Handi Rifle 30-30

Offline Similkameen Hunter

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Re: h and r survivor shotgun in 12 gauge?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2012, 11:29:28 AM »
thanks dogtag88



yes they did make one, but apparently it's rare.

Offline Similkameen Hunter

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Re: h and r survivor shotgun in 12 gauge?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2012, 06:18:43 AM »
does anyone here own a h&r 12g survivor shotgun? how do you like it?


thanks

Offline DaveH

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Re: h and r survivor shotgun in 12 gauge?
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2012, 06:37:53 AM »
Like Dogtagg88 said choates sells a a stock and forearm and that's what I got... though my 12 ga barrels are either a 28 in mod or the tracker II barrels...Its light and it kicks bad.......
Dave H.
US Army SFC(Ret)

Offline Markus

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Re: h and r survivor shotgun in 12 gauge?
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2012, 01:15:48 PM »
The gun in my avatar pic is a 12ga survivor with an adult size synthetic stock from choate. It's a great gun to carry a lot and shoot a little.
PROUD REDNECK CONSERVATIVE

I'd much rather be remembered for being a great shot than having the most expensive gun

Offline Similkameen Hunter

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Re: h and r survivor shotgun in 12 gauge?
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2012, 06:10:32 PM »
looks great markus!


hang on to it, not so many 12g survivors out there.

Offline Couger

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Re: h and r survivor shotgun in 12 gauge?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2012, 05:41:11 PM »
Quote from: Similkameen Hunter
does anyone here own a h&r 12g survivor shotgun? how do you like it?  thanks

Don't have mine yet (as such).  Its still in the 'project' stage.  Will be using Choate suvivor stock and Storearm with a 19inch CYLINDER bbl,  with soldered-on "express" type sights.
 
The key to mine will be 20-24rds of ammo stored with it ..... 2 kinds of slugs, Hevi-Shot buckshot, some specially designed/reloaded 2inch shells with 1-oz of shot, and four reloaded/rebuilt marine-type red meteor flares.
 
The slugs will include some Winchester 3" 'Partition Gold' 385 grain slugs that generate 3400+fpe ME for stopping a bear (if ever necessary), but also some Remington Sluggers for deer or similar. 
 
The Hevi-Shot buck might be #4B if not larger.
 
The 2" shotshells would be loaded with #6's more than 7 1/2's to kill 2 to 3lb fowl (MV @1185fps or so), and the four flare shells would be modeled after the rounds the Coast Guard requires on private boats, but reloaded so the rebuilt shell will fire a red meteor high enough over a forest to ensure it goes high enough to burn completely before hitting the ground (usually those rounds are fired over the ocean, so a fire can't happen). 
 
Hopefully the gun wouldn't be too heavy with its slightly extended Storearm (for more space) and and nylon sling.  I might consider designing a sling and one-stud for a single point mounting system versus tradtitional sling too.
 
Depending what a fellow wanted and was willing to spend, would paying to have a Polychoke installed be "too much?"

Offline TxGun

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Re: h and r survivor shotgun in 12 gauge?
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2012, 05:57:16 PM »
You'll find that gun to be extremely light. I have 2 set up like that...minus the polychoke. The stor-arm forearm adds very little weight, so (extra) weight will definitely not be a problem. I've never been recoil-sensitive, but if you are, you might find a shorty 12 gauge a handfull with full-power buckshot and/or slugs. I love my H&R shortys, and was just thinking about building another one, but some friends and a couple relatives think a mule would kick less, LOL.     

Offline Couger

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Re: h and r survivor shotgun in 12 gauge?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2012, 01:20:55 AM »
Only round that could have severe recoil would be the 3" 'Partition Gold' 385 grain slug-loads, for real emergencies ONLY.  ;D
 
Using a shortened [CYLINDER bore] barrel would possibly limit shots to 30-35yds, which would be fine since this gun will be for foraging/survival if not camp meat most of the time.  Along with the 12ga Survivor, I would always be packing a revolver that would back-up the Survivor - when I carried the Survivor at all!  The wheelgun is manditory 24X7, while the Survivor will be a supplimental piece.  (also my Survivor will be on an SB-2 receiver, along with other bbls available).

Offline jpshaw

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Re: h and r survivor shotgun in 12 gauge?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2012, 01:29:44 AM »
some specially designed/reloaded 2inch shells with 1-oz of shot, The 2" shotshells would be loaded with #6's more than 7 1/2's to kill 2 to 3lb fowl (MV @1185fps or so)
 
I would be more interested in these loads.  I know the English had some 2" 12 Ga shells at one time but I thought they held sub 3/4 or 7/8 oz loads.

Offline Couger

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Re: h and r survivor shotgun in 12 gauge?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2012, 11:20:29 PM »
Quote from: jpshaw
..... I would be more interested in these loads.  I know the English had some 2" 12 Ga shells at one time but I thought they held sub 3/4 or 7/8 oz loads.

The English still do have 2"  shells (bought some at MidwayUSA last year), rated at 6,000 LUP or thereabouts, but proceed carefully if you decide you like my ideas.
 
These shorty shells are something I'd use to get one last reload out of old hulls, as well as create these shortened specialized shotshells for my 12ga 'Survivor' singleshot.  I'm hoping to create reloads that could kill grouse or cottontails to 30-35yds.  Game (for camp meat not in a survival situation) would include mostly upland birds or bunnies.
 
I've been reloading 40+ years and some things I want to do with my 12-Survivor are conceptual for now.  But like you said 7/8oz 2" data [is available] on the Hodgdon site even if its awfully light.  A 1-ounce load however is quite doable if a reloader knows how shotshell loads used to be made before one-piece plastic wads were the norm.  Basically a 2" hull has plenty of volume in it (or even a 1 7/8" or 1 3/4" length 12ga hull, more about this below), for holding enough powder and wads and shot .....
 
In the earlier 1900's most commercial shotshells not all brass were brass and paper, and the wad [columns] usually consisted of cardboard over powder wads with felt or fiber wads stacked on those, however tall was necessary to take up whatever space wasn't needed to accommodate the amount shot used in the load.  Thats similar to how I'd make my shorty loads, starting with a ballistic products (plastic) over powder wad, then with whatever (wool) felt or fiber wad.  Also Mylar Wraps are available to create a "collar" to put inside the hull where the shot will reside, and when fired the wrap blows off like a wrapper.  The mylar wrap isn't manditory, but back in the 1960's and 1970's Winchester made their Super-X lines of field and duck loads with "Mk-5 shot collars!" (I'd be using that same concept, to hopefully improve pattern performance by minimizing pellet deformation).
 
Also Ballistic Products offers a device for cutting shotshell hulls apart (to disassemble), or for shortening hulls to whatever lengths your loads might call for.  The device is tricky to use, but it does cut hulls cleanly and squarely.
 
In addition, the Aguila Mini Shotshells (12ga) do work, with similar performance to a .410 (they have 5/8oz of shot approximately).  However their wad column leaves a lot to be desired! (I cut one open to examine after shooting several).  Those hulls started out at 1 3/4inches before they were sealed with a roll crimp.  And a better wad would greatly improve its performance (along with an increase in pellet count!.
 
The biggest "key" to making shorty shells is starting with a hull with a deep, low base wad to help maximize the internal volume.  Winchester AA hulls (original design) are hard to find nowadays, but Remington STS are GOOD! as well as Remington Game Club hulls along with some Federal target hulls.  Actually,  since these shorty are only designed (in my case) to be fired once, Federal paper hulls might make some excellent reloads once they were cut (were they chosen over plastic hulls).
 
To make my shorty shells I'd look at whatever load recipes were available for 1-ounce loads in my case, that use whatever powder I'm using.  Then I would cut and shorten the hull and wads, fitting everything here and there untill everything fit (trial and error) but leaving the correct amount of hull for making a clean roll crimp. 
 
Since I'd be using data under 7 or 8 thousand LUP max, they should be plenty safe!
 
I recall when I had a Remington M1100, that functioned most reliably with 1 1/8oz 2 3/4" trap loads, generating around 9,000-9,500 LUP!  These shorty shells would probably generate pressures well below that if velocities were kept around 1100-1150-1185 feet-per-second.
 
Ballistic Products offers tools made specifically for making roll crimps too.

Offline jpshaw

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Re: h and r survivor shotgun in 12 gauge?
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2012, 02:00:57 AM »
There was an article in the latest G&A about reduced 20 & 12 Ga loads.  They were not shorties but 2 3/4 but he was using, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4 and 7/8 oz of shot in his 12s.  He said the pattern was great.  Sometimes he would use 20 Ga wads in the bottom of his 12 Ga shotcups and 28 Ga wads in his 20 Ga shotcups before putting in the reduced amount of shot to take up some of the space.  Making shorties would save room and a 28 Ga load of 3/4 oz of sixes out of your 12 Ga would be all the shot you would need to bag a bunny and it would save weight too.
 
Forgot to mention he kept his velocity to about 1100 - 1200 max (you run out of range when you run out of pattern, not when you run out of velocity).  Needless to say recoil was nil.

Offline Couger

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Re: h and r survivor shotgun in 12 gauge?
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2012, 08:46:29 AM »
I will have to look for that magazine issue!  8)
 
 
 
Sounds like too much good data to let get away.

Offline jpshaw

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Re: h and r survivor shotgun in 12 gauge?
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2012, 12:23:25 PM »
That was the G&A March addition.  Had the "Ruger Rockin' Rimfires" on the cover.  May be the April addition is already out.  Even had 1/2 ounce loads like 2 1/2d" .410s out of his 12 Ga shells.