Mouse gun

[Couger]

..... I wonder if the 380 out of a small gun is more effective than a 9mm out of the same length barrel.....

No its not.  I've reloaded both and the 9mil holds much more propellent compared to the .380!
 
Of course the shorter the barrel, the more efficient bullets will tend to be lighter rather than heavier, that much is true.  But the 9mm with a 100 or 115 grain bullet will outperform a .380 even if that .380 had a 100 grain bullet!  (I haven't looked recently at .380 data, but the best loads I recall were with 88-90 grain bullets; generating over/around 200 fpe).
 
Lighter 9mm loads are probably going to be loaded with 115 grain bullets (if not one hundred grainers.
 
Taking a quick look at the 5th ed Hornady manual, the hotest .380 loads use a 90 grain XTP at 1100 fps, or a 100 grain FMJ at 950 fps.
 
The best 9mm loads use the same 90 grain XTP at 1400 fps, the same 100 grainer at 1300 fps, and a 115 grain XTP-HP for 1250 fps.
 
In that manual, the .380 test gun was a Beretta M84 with a 3.88" barrel, and the 9mm test gun was a S&W M39 with a 4inch barrel. 
 
In the Speer #13 manual, the hotest load was with a 95 grainer at 1027fps (and 3.8" bbl), vs in the 9mm with 115grainers at over 1200fps, with a 4" barre.  If both rounds were fired from 2.75-3.00 inch barreled guns, the 9mil is still easily going to outperform the .380.

[Victor3]

I like the power of the 22 mag. I don't see a 32 auto , 25 auto or 22 auto in that power range. They do offer other things and checking them out is no problem. Also I don't care if the conversation widens .

 I like it too, and if I really wanted the smallest available .22 mag that was somewhat usable, I'd consider the NAA "Pug" and install their Black Widow or Mini-Master grips on it (they will fit the Pug).
 
 You'd be losing some concealability but the larger grips would make the gun sit higher in the hand so you could see the sights, and would also allow for a much more secure hold than their lousy bird's head grip. Cocking the hammer would be a lot easier too.
 
 I think I might could live with this combo as a bare minimum SD setup...
 
http://northamericanarms.com/firearms/minis/pugs-1/pug-d.html
 
http://northamericanarms.com/accessories/p-accessories/p-grips/gmm-m.html
 
 And with the optional .22 lr cylinder, you could use anything down to BB caps for practice or plinking.
 
 I'd better get out of here before I talk myself into buying one. 

[Couger]

The NAA "Pug?"
 
 
 
Has anyone ever been killed with that pistol? 
Or any NAA-piece, other than perhaps a suicide?
 
Aren't most North American Arms mini-revolvers just conversation pieces? 

[mcwoodduck]

Couger,
Look at the test barrel lengths.
The 9mm was longer than the 380.
I understand that the 9X 19 is longer than 9X17 and more powder can be loaded, even with larger bullets.
My point was that the 9mm may need the barrel length like the 38 Special does to build the velocity.
My comment / questions was more along the lines of what velocity drop do you have as you move from the 5" test barrel that all the loading data is build around to a 3" or shorter in the micro autos? 
Sure the Glock 26 is slightly larger than a Walther PPK/S but what hits better, what is more effective?  Real world  not loading data.
Loading data showed the 38 Special round was more than fast enough to swing the steel targets, out of a 2" barrel it lost enough that the 380 was more efective on the target for similar classed guns.
 

[Couger]

Couger, Look at the test barrel lengths.
The 9mm was longer than the 380. I understand that the 9X 19 is longer than 9X17 and more powder can be loaded, even with larger bullets.
My point was that the 9mm may need the barrel length like the 38 Special does to build the velocity ......

You're gabbing at straws WoodDuck. No matter how hard "you wish it," all that wishing WILL NOT change the physics involved,  being what they are, and not in favor of the .380 over the 9mm.  Even the 9X18mm Markarov (with its .366 bore) is still not as powerful as the 9mm.  However the Markarov is more powerful than the .380 but it too still runs out of propellent before the 9milimeter round. 
 
You sound like you're trying to make more out of barrel length that just isn't there!  And there are no [secret] or known powders capable of doing what you want them too.
 
For what you want to happen WoodDuck, the .380 would have to work at much higher pressures than the 9mm.  But at present ammo made with known technologies isn't capable of that.
 
Also the .380 operates at a maximum of 21,500 psi,  the Markarov at 24,100 psi, and the 9mm operates at a maximum of 35,000 pis, all according to to SAAMI specs.   
 
SAAMI is the 'small arms and ammo manufacturing institute' (or similar), basically the "F.D.A" of the ammo industry (vs the food industry).  The only advantage the .380 offers (over than 9mm in my opinion) has is that its a little more compact than a 9mm in a tiny pistol like a Seacamp.  The Seacamp originally first came in a .32ACP, but the one I saw was in .380.  I don't recall whether I actually handled that one piece (the owner held it so it was easily seen and was happy to show it off), but you're right it had no sights!  Just a long distinct groove along the slide-top.  Darn thing was no bigger than an average wallet!

[mcwoodduck]

So 9mm is PFM.
Pure Freeking magic and not subjet to ballistics like the 38 and 357 rounds.
I read an article years ago where a guy too standard 357 mag ammo and took out a Dan Wesson Pistol Pack
Chrono graphed with no barrel, 2", 4" ,6" and 8"
There were statistly significant velocity increased as barrel lenghts were added.
My point being, the 9mm bullets are made to open at a certain speed.  You need the force to push goo into the hollow point to make it open.  The 380 bullets are made to open at 380 speeds out of the shorter barreled guns.
Again would a 380 be a better choice in a small frame gun apples to apples.
I still wonder if that powder that is used to propell the 9mm faster, and to higher pressures is not wasted out side of the barrel as the propellant is burning. 
That may still make the smaller 9mm faster but now you have a huge fire ball that may not do you any good at night and while still faster the bullet may not disrupt as designed.
I see this with the 38 Special that the slower speed out of the 2" barrel made the 380 more effective.  And a 38 Special has a whole lot more powder volume than the 9mm.
 

[Victor3]

The NAA "Pug?"
 
Has anyone ever been killed with that pistol? 
Or any NAA-piece, other than perhaps a suicide?
 
Aren't most North American Arms mini-revolvers just conversation pieces? 

 The question (for any gun) should be if it has potential to be used effectively for what it's designed for, not if anyone's "been killed" with it.
 
 Yes, the base model bird's head grip NAA mini-revolvers are mainly just novelties, but some of the other configurations (larger grips, usable sights) could obviously be useful for minimal SD.
 
 Not my cup o' tea, but if I had to have a .22 mag that I could stuff into my sock, I can't think of a better option.
 
 
 

[Couger]

The NAA "Pug?"
 
Has anyone ever been killed with that pistol? 
Or any NAA-piece, other than perhaps a suicide?
 
Aren't most North American Arms mini-revolvers just conversation pieces? 

 The question (for any gun) should be if it has potential to be used effectively for what it's designed for, not if anyone's "been killed" with it.
 
 Yes, the base model bird's head grip NAA mini-revolvers are mainly just novelties, but some of the other configurations (larger grips, usable sights) could obviously be useful for minimal SD.
 
 Not my cup o' tea, but if I had to have a .22 mag that I could stuff into my sock, I can't think of a better option.

Your answer is purely subjective, whether you liked the way I asked it or not. 
 
Somewhere I actually heard about a cop that carried a NAA revolver as his off-duty piece, and apprehended a 'perp!'  At the time I wasn't as interested as I might be now ..... But WHY did the tough cop use such a "puny leetle gun"?
 
So he could go back to his big tough he-man buddies and brag that he brought in a bad guy with only a tiny .22 for a weapon?
 
Some of the details I recall is the cop did shoot the suspect, and the bullet grazing the BG's scalp.  The cops bandaged the BG before throwing him in a cell.  No mention was made whether a doctor's or hospital visit was involved.
 
Also many times when I've wondered about the effectiveness of a round used by LE, there are usually (normally) statistics about what cartridges have been used in shooting, and even specific loadings.  None with the mini-22's!
 
Yeah North American Arms makes a couple longer-barreled .22's that might begin to offer some "use" to an owner, but most of those mini-revolvers have barrels less than 2 inches in length. 
 
Are those particular tiny models good for anything more than just making noise? 
 
Yeah I'm aware there are accessory grips available much larger than the tiny bird's head grips, that even help conceal or enhance how those NAA might be carried.
 
I also know a fellow who carries a 'Mini-Master' with its four-inch barrel for dispatching dogfish (sharks) that wreck his salmon nets!  And on other boards sometimes there have been several posters who indicate they also carried/owned the 4inch Mini-Master.  Many stoke their's with some WMR's, but not always. 

[Victor3]

Are those particular tiny models good for anything more than just making noise? 
 

 Howsabout you tell us, seeing as how you appear to fancy yourself an expert in physics & ballistics? 

[Hodr]

This thread was started to discuss the utility of a 22mag mini revolver.  I have read the posts about three times now and I am convinced I don't have a dog in this fight.  I rejected the 22 mag and found a 22 lr minirevolver instead.  I am getting older and have downsized my capability as I age.  A 65-5 S&W is now to much to carry as is a 9mm.  A 38 sp at 12 0z empty is about right for me in a vest and to be honest it is more comfortable with a second one for balance and a New York reload.  That being said, depending on where I am going and what endeavor I am engaged in, I do not always pick up that vest!  At home and for back up I use a 5 Oz NAA mini 22lr.  have no intention of holding someone at bay/distance with this.  It is an up close and personal defense weapon. It can punch much harder than I can. It's purpose is to be used at punch range in fear of my life, not to target shoot.  It is hidden in plain sight, carried at all times and never for the purpose of a larger caliber gun.  It is loaded with a lower not higher velocity round.  Aguilia makes a 60 gr 22 lr traveling at right around 700 fps.  This round does not go too far, but at punch range it seems adequate.  22 mag was too big, too heavy, and more than I wanted for this purpose.  For a bug out bag as thread started out asking, it seems useless.  I did not at any time plan for anything less than a 38 sp for defense, the Naa Mini is for surprise and shock.
Let me add that one of my godfathers was a 4th Marine Raider who died in his bed at 82.  He once told me that the weapon he depended on the most was a piece of piano wire with a toggle on each end, weight about 3 ounces.  When I was Army back in the Nam era my ultimate weapon was a Gerber MK 1 in a leg sheath.  For my godfather and myself down and in close, caliber has never mattered.
 
blindhari

[bilmac]

I've never found an auto that I liked, but Victor made a good case for one vs a revolver.
I've never felt the need for a very small gun, but this thread has made a very good case for one.
Thanks guys.

[Couger]

Howsabout you tell us, seeing as how you appear to fancy yourself an expert in physics & ballistics? 

I can read, ole buddie!     Despite attending the publik fool-system.
 
Can you read Victor?  Did you fail BASIC PHYSICS Viktor?  The question about the NAA guns is legitimate Viktor.  Or are you saying you're high screwl drop out?  Guess you never attended college?  Or if you did you studied basket weaving?
 
What good are those tiny revolvers FOR besides making noise?
 
Some of them have only a one-inch barrel!
 
I guess after firing your five shots Viktor, you could also throw your gun at your attacker?

[Couger]

..... Let me add that one of my godfathers was a 4th Marine Raider who died in his bed at 82.  He once told me that the weapon he depended on the most was a piece of piano wire with a toggle on each end, weight about 3 ounces.  When I was Army back in the Nam era my ultimate weapon was a Gerber MK 1 in a leg sheath.  For my godfather and myself down and in close, caliber has never mattered.  blindhari 

A guarrotte (sp?) is certainly close and personal!!  Hope your godfather shared at least a few of his stories if he was inclined to.  He definitely lived through historic times.
 
My pops found himself in very poor health and in need of a close weapon, even when at home.  He chose a PPK/s.  I'd still go with one of those 12oz .38's if not my Kahr CW9.

[mcwoodduck]

Howsabout you tell us, seeing as how you appear to fancy yourself an expert in physics & ballistics? 

I can read, ole buddie!     Despite attending the publik fool-system.
 
Can you read Victor?  Did you fail BASIC PHYSICS Viktor?  The question about the NAA guns is legitimate Viktor.  Or are you saying you're high screwl drop out?  Guess you never attended college?  Or if you did you studied basket weaving?
 
What good are those tiny revolvers FOR ANYTHING  besides making noise? 
ANSWER THE QUESTION VIKTOR!!   

I will pick up the arguement of the tiny revolver and if they are any good.
I am not talking about the mechanics of the gun, or the the reliability of the rimfire bullets or 22LR vs 22Mag or even Rimfire vs the classic mouse gun center fire calibers.
Lets talk about the size of the person vs the size of the gun.
Clearly what is a vialbe self defence oprion for one person, may not be for another.
I can shoot my TPH, I am 5'10" and wear a medium glove. 
My cousin is 6'3" and wears an XL glove.  What the TPH looks like in my hand my Walther PP or Sig P230 looks in his hand.  Actually my sig P229 looks small in his hand.  A desert eagle looks like My P226 as you scale the hands.
Clearly why I can use as a self defense mouse gun my cousin can not.  What I would consider a compact gun he considers a mouse gun. 
The tiny revolver that some can shoot under pressure, others can not. 
I had a casheer that had one of the tiny guns in her purse, her husband asked me to take it out and clean it and take her shooting.  The NAA was a novelty gun for me, it was a viable gun for her.  and pulling it from her purse at the range she was bale to draw cock and shoot at 4 feet and shoot again.  I needed two hands
I like the idea of the auto loader, if you can shoot the gun.  It reloads and is able to fire multiple times, assuming your hand does not stop the slide.  The tiny revolver is a single action, and you need to take the single handed cocking of that gun into effect as a last ditch firearm you may have ot shoot it single handed or weak handed.  The ability of being able to work the gun is what is going to put it in either the Mouse gun catagory or the novelty gun catagory.  Mouse gun being a viable self defense gun and a novelty gun being .... See what I have.

[turk762]

I still say any gun is better then no gun!!! To many tough guys in this world saying you need a bigger gun, More for bragging rights than anything else. I have read police reports and saw the pics of people shot with 22 LR and trust me when I tell you, they do kill.
 I had a aunt that was murdered with one, so I also speak from experience, since the wake I have not seen her, so that shows me first hand they kill. Ballistics of the gun did not matter to her or the others I have read in reports.
Police carry rifles and shotguns in the squads, not because they carry the best caliber, best ballistics ammo on there belts. Its because bigger is always better when in a armed conflict or serious situations.
We are talking self defense here, not running into a armed conflict. You have hand to hand self-defense, edged weapon self-defense, and armed self-defense. Armed is better then edged. Edged is better then hand to hand, hand to hand is better then do nothing other then being a victim. SO I guess my point is any gun is better then none.It would be a good idea to know a little about it all so it gives you a fighting chance.
I carry a kel tec p11 9mm when cc. I have heard to many police horror stories about the 9mm not stopping subjects to have full faith in it, but anything is better then nothing!! If it is a conflict and I have access to a long gun,  you can bet your sweet behind that is what I will have. Till then I will use what I have at hand for the self defense of my family, me, or others I will use what I have.

[Couger]

Nicely thought-out 'argument' WoodDuck! 
 
I like .22's, altho I haven't stated that.  And even have a M21 beretta, plus Ruger mk2 and 10/22.
 
Something else I have, is a case of 4-5 types of .22 ammo I've put away for a SHTF (in it are Velocitor's, CCI CB Shorts and Longs, some "standard velocity" fodder, and even some less expensive HP's than the Velocitors).  I did this so several uses/needs might be met in a SHTF.  These are strictly for emergencies - not plinking!  Not bartering!  Emergencies only.
 
I like bigger guns than .22's for SD, but my mum was able to deter 2 or 3 times from being attacked or car jacked because she had her Ruger .22!  Just pulling it out from under the car seat and setting the still-holstered Ruger on the dash, discouraged a couple "hoodies" from jacking her in Pensacole, FL late one night.
 
It certainly makes sense that peopkle inclined to arm themselves will use whatever is at hand, including whatever is BIG or SMALL.  As well as odd.
 
Below I'm gonna try to post a "chart" of several 'mouse guns.'
 
Also, who has has heard of the term "rat guns?"      Those are supposed to be the next size of hand guns too big to fit in one's pocket (but almost do) or definitely calling it a 'mouse gun' is a stretch.  (guns like the Glock 26 or 27, J-frame S&W's, the Ruger SP101, Walthers, larger Kel-Tec's, etc.)
 
For those interested there is also a site ...... 'mouseguns.com'

[turk762]

Nicely thought-out 'argument' WoodDuck! 
 
I like .22's, altho I haven't stated that.  And even have a M21 beretta, plus Ruger mk2 and 10/22.
 
Something else I have, is a case of 4-5 types of .22 ammo I've put away for a SHTF (in it are Velocitor's, CCI CB Shorts and Longs, some "standard velocity" fodder, and even some less expensive HP's than the Velocitors).  I did this so several uses/needs might be met in a SHTF.  These are strictly for emergencies - not plinking!  Not bartering!  Emergencies only.
 
I like bigger guns than .22's for SD, but my mum was able to deter 2 or 3 times from being attacked or car jacked because she had her Ruger .22!  Just pulling it out from under the car seat and setting the still-holstered Ruger on the dash, discouraged a couple "hoodies" from jacking her in Pensacole, FL late one night.
 
It certainly makes sense that peopkle inclined to arm themselves will use whatever is at hand, including whatever is BIG or SMALL.  As well as odd.
 
Below I'm gonna try to post a "chart" of several 'mouse guns.'
 
Also, who has has heard of the term "rat guns?"      Those are supposed to be the next size of hand guns too big to fit in one's pocket (but almost do) or definitely calling it a 'mouse gun' is a stretch.  (guns like the Glock 26 or 27, J-frame S&W's, the Ruger SP101, Walthers, larger Kel-Tec's, etc.)
 
For those interested there is also a site ...... 'mouseguns.com'

Kudo's for your mom, many times the display of a firearm convinces the aggressor to find easier pray.

[Couger]

     
 
                                                                 barrel                                           overall 
  MSRP                                                      length      capacity     weight       length
                Colt   Mustang   .380 ACP            2.75"        6 + 1       12.5 oz.       5.5"   
$310.00   Beretta    21A    .22 LR                  2.4"         7 + 1       11.8 oz.       4.9"   
$390.00   Beretta    3202    .32 ACP              2.4"          7 + 1        14 oz.        4.9"   
$475.00   Beretta    BU9    9mm                   3.07"         6 + 1       17.7 oz.      5.63"   
$690.00  Kahr   P380   .380 ACP                   2.53"        6 + 1         9.98 oz.      4.9"   
$837.00  Kahr   PM9    9mm                         3.1"          6 + 1        11.1 oz.      5.42"   
$485.00  Kahr   CW9    9mm                        3.57"         7 + 1        15.8 oz.      5.9"   
$361.00  Kel-Tec   P-32   .32 ACP                 2.7"          7 + 1         9.4 oz.      5.1"   
$361.00  Kel-Tec   P3AT   .380 ACP               2.7"         6 + 1        11.1 oz.      5.2"   
$377.00  Kel-Tec   PF-9   9mm                      3.1"          7 + 1       18.2 oz.      5.85"   
$379.00  Ruger   LCP   .380 ACP                   2.75"         6 + 1        9.4 oz.       5.2"   
$599.00  Ruger   LCR   .357 Mag                   1.85"           5           17.1 oz.     6.5"   
$549.00  Ruger  Bearcat   .22 LR                   4.2"            6            24 oz.       9.0"   
$334.00  NAA    Pug    .22 WMR                     1.0"            5           6.4 oz.       4.5"   
$334.00  NAA   Black Diamond  .22WMR          2.0"            5           8.8 oz.      5.875"   
$349.00  NAA    Mini - Master   .22WMR         4.0"            5           10.7 oz.     7.875"   
$334.00  NAA    Hogleg    .22 WMR                6.0"            5           9.5 oz.       9.75"   
$430.00  NAA    Guardian    .32 ACP              2.5"           6 + 1       13.5 oz.      4.75"   
$479.00  NAA    Guardian    .380 ACP             2.5"          6 + 1       18.72 oz.     4.75"   
$446.25  Seecamp    LWS    .32 ACP             2.625"        6 + 1        13.3 oz.     4.25"   
$795.00  Seecamp    LWS    .380 ACP           2.625"        6 + 1        13.7 oz       4.25"
$419.00  S&W      Bodyguard    .380               2.75"        6 + 1       11.85 oz      5.25"
$759.00  S&W   317  Kit  Gun   .22 LR              3.0"           8          12.5 oz.       7.19"
$699.00  S&W     317PD         .22 LR             1.875"          8          10.5 oz.       6.2"
$759.00  S&W     351PD      .22 WMR             1.875"          7          10.8 oz.       6.2"
$1019    S&W     340PD     .357/.38 Spec         1.875"          5          11.4 oz.       6.31"
$449.00  S&W        442        .38 Spec             1.875"          5          14.7 oz.       6.2"
$759.00  S&W        60     357/.38 Spec              3.0"           5          24.5 oz.       7.5"
              Walther        TPH       .22 LR             2.9"           6 + 1       14.0 oz.       5.4"   
$379.00  Walther      P22         .22 LR              3.4"         10 + 1       15.1 oz.       6.3"   
$349.00  Walther      PK380      .380                3.66"          8 + 1       19.4 oz.       6.5"   
$529.00  Walther      PPS         9mm                3.2"          7 + 1         21.3 oz.       6.3"
$629.00   Walther     PPK/s       .380                3.35"         7 + 1        22.4 oz.       6.1"

[mcwoodduck]

Couger,
TPH is 6 rounds in the mag and one for a total of 7.
Mine will shoot and cycle with almost any 22LR ammo from Stingers to the 60 grain Aguilla.
Also if you buy a stainless TPH buy a blued mag release as I have broken three of the stainless ones using the gun and so far installed a blued one and nothing has gone wrong, I have a back ups in case.
The stainles were poured rathern then the buled were milled and the stainless would crack and break after a dozen or two mag inserts.
Also the Colt Mustang is now offered as the Sig P238.   They use the Same magizine.  Slighly different but the same.
 
John M Browning was a master of scale.
To Make 50 BMG he simply scalled up 30-06 from .308 to .510.
To Make 380 he simply scaled 45 ACP from .451 to .355.
To make the 1905 45 ACP work in the 1908 Colt pocket pistol.
I miss my Colt 1903 it was a great little 32 that shot all ammo reliably.
In Street stoppers Marshall wanted to start with the 380 but found so many 60 grain Win silver tip 32 ACP hits that made it statisicly equal to 9mm or 45 ACP ball atr 62( 32 ACP 60grain silver tip), 63 (9mm 115 grain ball) , and 64% (45 ACP 230 grain ball) one shot stops respectivly.  Now change the ammo from ball to a modern JHP and and the 9 and 45 ACp pull away by 20 to 28%.  Again Marshalls book is 20 years old and does not have rounds like 357 Sig, or 40 S&W.
This Data was the reason the Sea Camp was made to fire only the Silver tip ammo.  Later the Federal 65 grain Hydro shok was added to that list when it was developed in the mid to late 90's and the creation of the Beretta tom cat.  Something I was looking for when I came across the TPH.
With that said if you own a 32 you need ot try the ammo out before carrying it.  My 1903 shot the silver tips great my Walther PP does not like anything other than ball or the 71 grain mag tech JH that looks like a FMJ.  Try out your ammo with a full mag before you start carrying it.  make sure the gun will feed and eject a whole mag then test the next mag if you carry two mags.

[Couger]

..... the Colt Mustang is now offered as the Sig P238.   They use the Same magizine.  Slighly different but the same.
 
John M Browning was a master of scale.
To Make 50 BMG he simply scalled up 30-06 from .308 to .510.
To Make 380 he simply scaled 45 ACP from .451 to .355.
To make the 1905 45 ACP work in the 1908 Colt pocket pistol.
I miss my Colt 1903 it was a great little 32 that shot all ammo reliably.
In Street stoppers Marshall wanted to start with the 380 but found so many 60 grain Win silver tip 32 ACP hits that made it statisicly equal to 9mm or 45 ACP ball atr 62( 32 ACP 60grain silver tip), 63 (9mm 115 grain ball) , and 64% (45 ACP 230 grain ball) one shot stops respectivly.  Now change the ammo from ball to a modern JHP and and the 9 and 45 ACp pull away by 20 to 28%.  Again Marshalls book is 20 years old and does not have rounds like 357 Sig, or 40 S&W.
This Data was the reason the Sea Camp was made to fire only the Silver tip ammo.  Later the Federal 65 grain Hydro shok was added to that list when it was developed in the mid to late 90's and the creation of the Beretta tom cat.  Something I was looking for when I came across the TPH.
With that said if you own a 32 you need ot try the ammo out before carrying it.  My 1903 shot the silver tips great my Walther PP does not like anything other than ball or the 71 grain mag tech JH that looks like a FMJ.  Try out your ammo with a full mag before you start carrying it.  make sure the gun will feed and eject a whole mag then test the next mag if you carry two mags. 

Interesting comments about CF-choices in a carry (or mouse) gun!  I might have heard the Seecamp was designed around the Tinnchester Silvertip, but had forgotten that!  For a .32 however, you're right that was a great load before competitors answered the challenge for something better.
 
But I gotta say I'd likely never own a .32, nor a .25 or .380.  Interesting how Jonathan Browning developed the .380 and .45 ACP's.  I haven't studied any correlation between the two, altho I have owned .45's. 
 
In his full-size pistols however, I'd grab up a Hi-Power in .40S&W (if one could be found) if not 9mm.  BTW, I'm not enamoured with the 9mm, but like it and the .38+P both, as benchmark rounds when making choices for serious full-size self-defense pieces.  I mentioned my pops had a .380, in a Walther PPK/s.  Even after 50+ years one would think that design would have been perfekted and refined into a near flawless piece!
 
My dad stoked his with a really warm load, but it still didn't equal most +p.38 loads. 
 
And it was quite disturbing how my pops' pistol would still leave a huge blood-bruise inside the web of my hand whenever I shot it!  I not liked the .380 since nor the Walthers that much.  And the .380 just doesn't equal (but the weakest) .38 specials.
 
Btw, I too like what I heard about Marshall and Sanow and their tests.  However there are those who think those tests are boogered and inaccurate.  Never heard Mossad Ayoob lean that way however.  One huge thing I have ALWAYS liked about Ayoob is the amount of time he's put his forensics experiences "on trial" when he's testified for legitimate gun owners and their defense teams!  Ayoob's data and anecdotes and stories are always interesting and great reads, too. 

[Couger]

TPH is 6 rounds in the mag and one for a total of 7.
Mine will shoot and cycle with almost any 22LR ammo from Stingers to the 60 grain Aguilla.

6 +1!  That’s good to know.  Many sites specified 'X + 1', some didn't.  As for purchasing a TPH, my "steel" strong-enough shooter for handling Singers or Velocitors is a Beretta 21A.  Till now I thought the TPH's weren't made any longer.  Has Walther (or someone else under license) started making them again?
 
I once had a Phoenix Arms HP22A I tried to shoot Stingers in.  After the 3rd round in second full mag, the firing flew out and hit me in the chest!  When "pop metal" is what some suggest that cheap manufacturers use, which is exactly what my HP22A looked like!
 
Still, all-in-all, it was an incredibly accurate leetle pistol with its (full) 3-inch barrel.  When I first became interested in 'SMALL' .22LR pistols, it was after the 3rd time when out hiking in Utah, I came upon ruffled grouse on or right off a trail!  Never close enough to catch (as they strutted around - 3X different times!) just literally a couple inches beyond reach!  A .22 Short would have been ample for that, but not self defense.
 
However, for self defense in ALL of the NAA revolvers I too would shoot WMR's (even with the shortest barrel!).  From my Beretta I'd probably choose Stingers (for maximum velocity attainable from a shortie barrel with the lightest/fastest bullet in a .22LR!). 
 
Plus I haven't done it recently, but Stingers fired into a water-soaked phone book used to expand to near .60-caliber!
 
Someone earlier suggested the North American Arms mini revolvers are well engineered and well made.  I agree with that.
 
When perusing their site I was aware the Model 1860 (mini) replica was offered in a 5inch model, but not a 6incher!  (the 'Hogleg') 
 
Now if NAA would just offer their Black Widow/Mini-Master in a 6inch version, which would be outstanding for an extremely lightweight survival piece and grouse-getter!
 
If NAA offered such a piece, I'd remove the front 'patridge style' (fat) blade and replace it with a Marble's .250"W  3/8" dovetail  1/16" orange fiber optic post!  If appropriate I'd change the rear sight too for a finer aperture than might be stock. 
 
Such a smallish revolver in either Long Rifle or WMR would offer much-improved performance for the range, small game potting, or self defense.  But in a package still small enough to fit in a tight concealable place.   
 
Or a handy-accessible pocket in one's backpack too!   
 
For small game hunting I would use CCI's SGB load.  That one is rated at @ 1120fps in a rifle, with a 40 grain bullet that even has a meplat (the secret to the SGB design)  Even from a handgun terminal velocity would still be over 1000fps. 

[mcwoodduck]

We will agree to disagree about the effectiveness of the 38 Special out of a 2" J frame or Detective Special.
My shooting tells me that pound for pound the 380 out of a Sig P230 was more effective than the 38 Special out of a 2" snub nose.    now a heavier bullet may have had a different effect out of the 38 Special.
 

[Victor3]

I guess after firing your five shots Viktor, you could also throw your gun at your attacker?

 No need, Coogie... I'll just dump the five empties and load my spare boolit if they's a 6th scumbag needin' a shot to the forehead. 

[SHOOTALL]

9mm vs 380 , my thoughts , NOTHING BEATS CUBIC INCHES and a 9mm weighs more and has more CI's its that simple.
38 spl out of a 1.8 inch Jframe vs 380 , same thing here . In both ammo selection will matter . You can't pick the best 380 vs the worst 38 spl. There is now 130 gr bullets that are made for the short bbl. 38 spl.
As for bad guys , they are like birds on a fence , shoot one the rest will fly. You should also understand standing in the open blazing away will get you shot .
6+1= what  really  ?
Another shot or two when 5 didn't work ?
 
Heres how I look at it , the smaller the weapon the closer you need to get it for it to have a chance of working. A dangerous act if it can be avoided. With really small guns that would be sticking it in a mouth , nose ,ear or eye. The Seacamp was invented by a guy who was in two life death fights. He built from what he learned . have a gun and sights are useless at the range most fights take place. I'll side with him he has the Tee shirt !
Now if a 8+ shot 22 mag Jframe came along .................at 12 ozs ...............it would be a nice gun to have .

[Couger]

..... the smaller the weapon the closer you need to get it for it to have a chance of working. A dangerous act if it can be avoided. With really small guns that would be sticking it in a mouth , nose ,ear or eye .....

Yepper!
 
S&W makes their 351PD in .22WMR with seven shots.  Unloaded comes in just under 11 ounces.  What would be more advantageous?  A j-frame?  Or tiny revolver?
 
Which one is easier to reload?  Handle?  Shoot?  Hit with?  Likely to always be carried and not left at home?
 
But if packing a J-frame, why not jump up to a bigger caliber? 

[SHOOTALL]

Thanks for info. 340 PD in pocket    if its legal to have its with me . 22 mag in BOB with lots of ammo along with more 357 mag ammo . 

[Victor3]

 This S&W 640 has been our main home defense gun for the past 20+ years. I chose it because of its inherent safety and ease of use for my Wife (and now my Son). Only one control to think about if it's ever needed; just point and pull the trigger. No auto can beat it for simplicity.
 

 
 If NAA were to market a scaled-down version in .22 mag with similar features (double action, shrouded hammer, trigger guard), I think they'd have the ultimate mouse revolver for concealed carry. I'd be 1st in line to buy one and forget about carrying a small auto.
 
"Build a better mousetrap (or mousegun) and the world will beat a path to your door."