Pre-start or direct sow

[longwinters]

Since many of you are gettin ready to garden, how many direct sow all or part of your seed and how many pre-start in the house etc....
 
If you pre-start or buy plants what plants are you doing this with?
 
Long

[jvs]

I do direct sow with the real early crops like Peas, Spinach, Radishes etc.  Other than that, I will get the plants in another month or so. 


I used to start seeds in old cardboard egg cartons, but I stopped that a long time ago in favor of buying plants.   I always ended up with more seeds than I needed, so now I just buy what I need.

[bilmac]

I used to buy tomato and pepper plants from nursaries, but I don't any more. I am big into heirlooms and you can't buy those in any store. So, I'm starting my own. You just about have to in zone 4.

I am going to be starting cabbage in the house this year because I discovered last year how good homemade sauerkraut is.

I just planted onions for transplanting today. I just put them in a 18 X24" X 5" deep plastic tray.

[longwinters]

Well, I can start about 30 plants from seed but it is really tight space and light wise since I have them in 6" pots.  So I start my tomato (10) and bell pepper (18).  I have started brocolli, squash, romaine lettus and cukes.  But the squash (summer and winter), lettus and cukes I now direct sow.  With onions I have tried sets and plants and saw no difference at all, so this year I am going with sets which are much cheaper.  And of course carrots will be direct sown.  Like bilmac said it can be tough in zone 4. 
 
Long

[cjclemens]

I start the really small seeded plants and the slow growing plants indoors.  Im zone 6 here, so I have a fairly decent growing season, but it still helps to get a headstart on stuff like tomatoes, peppers, onions, etc.  I use the compressed peat pellets to germinate seeds before I transfer them to a small pot.  I also have two 4' tables that I hung flourescent shop light fixtures over.  With the right bulbs in it, I can put plenty of light on little seedlings.  The trays save me some space initially, and as I move stuff from trays to the small pots, it gives me room to start more.  Honestly, im way behind this year - just got stuff seeded into trays last weekend, but we'll see how it all goes.  I dont like to, but Im not afraid to supplement my starts with some store bought plants.  The biggest problem I run into is hard seed...some seeds are still dormant, so I end up with some germinating in a week or less and others that take over a month - but that's what I get for buying the 10 cent packages of seed from the local farm store...
 
As far as direct seeding goes, I save that for the fast growing stuff - peas, beans, pumpkin, squash, mellons, and (of course) sweet corn.  That being said - I have it pretty easy here.  I can imagine starting stuff indoors is a lot more important up there in zone 4.

[keith44]

last year and this year are transition years for me, and next year will likely be also, so I can tell you my rules of thumb, but in a couple years those may change. 


Tomatoes my heirlooms I start inside, but I also buy hybrids for now.  When I am finished with the transitions I will be saving the seeds from the heirlooms (the first year I do not buy hybrids)


Peppers are heirloom only and I start those inside (banana, bell, and chili)


cabbage I either start or buy plants (trying to learn to save seeds from these)


Carrots, Radish, cucumber, squash, corn, beans, peas, taters, and onions are direct sown.


In addition to transitioning to heirloom and seed saving I am also transitioning from just a few smallish garden plots to a multi acre garden area and using a tractor instead of just a tiller and hand tools.

[cjclemens]

Since you'll be saving seeds, how much space do you put between different varieties of peppers and tomatoes?  Its my understanding that, for seed purity purposes, commercial growers put a half mile to a mile between fields of different bell peppers.  They also separate sweet bell peppers and hot peppers by over a mile, so they don't end up with strange cross breeds.  I only ask because I have considered saving seed myself, and I just assumed I did not have enough space to separate all the different varieties I plant.  I guess my other option is to cut back to one variety, but I hate the thought of putting my eggs all in one basket, as they say.

[keith44]

Hi cjclemens,


this is going to be an experiment, since I cannot put miles between each type.  So my plan is to have them separated by 400 yards and two wind breaks.  My "seed" garden will be used as part of the crop rotation and seed production will be such that I keep seeds for two or three years use before growing another seed crop.


I cannot guarantee seed purity with this method, but it is the best I can do with what I have to work with.




****ADDED*****


I will also be "timing" the pollen on other plants (corn for instance) (popcorn, and sweet corn) to have a staged harvest that does not cross pollinate.

[cjclemens]

Sounds like you've already put some thought into this.  Hope it works out.  I guess I didn't think about other flowering crops - A little bit of distance and something to distract the bees ought to do a pretty good job preventing cross pollination.  Unfortunately, as I forgot to mention earlier, I have a few beehives on the farm.  With a small army of pollinators, I dont think anywhere on property is particularly safe.  Good luck with the seed collections!

[keith44]

LOL the wife says I'm so anal I won't wipe without a plan 

[cjclemens]

Well, I think its probably better to have a plan, especially when you run into one of those really sticky situations...

[bilmac]

What I gather is that plants with "perfect" flowers which means both male and female parts in the same blossom, rarely cross breed. These are plants like peas and beans and tomatoes. Plants like corn have the male parts in the tassle and the female parts are the silk. So the pollen drifts on the wind to reach the receptor. These are the plants you have to keep seperated by the huge differences.
There are four different species of squash, and they will not cross between species, so if you watch what species you are planting you can grow four different squash each year without crosses.

[keith44]

Yes that is what I am thinking, the bees or insect pollinators, are the wild card.  It is possible for an insect to cause some crosspollination

[bilmac]

Yup, even plants with perfect flowers can occasionally cross. I think you and I have been reading from the same book, Gardening When it Counts.

[keith44]

Yup, and many others

[cjclemens]

Insect pollinators are definitely the reason commercial seed producers isolate varieties.  I read that natural cross pollination on neighboring plants is something like 40% - just from bees and other insects hopping from plant to plant.  The general rule is that there shall be no less than 150 feet between varieties if some type of barrier plants are included and 1/4 mile is most desireable.  However, like I said, I have bee hives less than 100 yards from my primary garden plot, so there's not much I can do here.

[keith44]

maybe there is, if a secondary or even third garden plot could be dedicated to seed production.  plant some kind of thick hedge, and perhaps separate the plots with pine trees in addition to a low hedge, and keep marigolds around the seed plot.  Might be enough to keep the bees from crossing the seeds with the other crops.  Just guessing here, since I don't have bees yet (would like to have a few hives eventually)

[LunaticFringeInc]

I direct sow few if any of my plants.  I will direct sow things such as Broccoli, Spinach, Carrots and Lettuce though.  I also like to grow a lot of Heirloom types and while the market on those as seedlings are becoming available more and more each year they are still pretty hit and miss at the nursery.  Seedlings are getting to be a bit more pricey these days as well.  For the price of a couple of seedlings I can get a whole pack of seeds that in many cases will last me for 2-3 growing seasons and give me more plants than I can sometimes find space for.  If I end up with a few too many I usually have no problem pawning the excess off to neighbors who are more than willing to take a few freebies.

[ironglow]

I direct sow radish, carrots, beets and squash (both winter & summer), I don't plant corn.  I am a tomato fanatic so I start my heirlooms, and sometimes augment with some hybrids..  I don't have the space on the land immediately around my house and my woods is too far and too predator-prone to use, so I cannot separate tomatoes by that much, so I try to keep hybrids down wind from heirlooms, rather than vice-versa.

[bobg]

  My ex brother in law use to start his weed inside. .  Does that count?

[keith44]

LMAO!!!

sure why not, no one specified vegetable seed