Author Topic: I wonder how Armerica would have coped... (Read 2688 times)

don heath · « **on:** August 02, 2012, 01:49:05 AM »

Reading the news on the power outage in Northern India and hearing from a client of mine who lives there...The stress on the system were huge- but as 75% of the population are used to no access to regular power anyway...not too many dead and power was quite quickly (24 hrs) restored to all critical areas.

The main 'sucess' was that there was no panic. The authorities were able to convince people that there was a solution and they were onto it and just to sit tight and stay home. Police and Army rapidly depolyed to ensure that criminal activity was kept to a minimum (worked - no looting).

I cannot help but wonder how the USA would have fared- particularly in the North East...I have no faith that the mass of urbanites would not panic when all cell phones/internet services fail -

spooked · « **Reply #1 on:** August 02, 2012, 06:03:26 AM »

Will be looting in the large cities, as already evidenced by past occurrences..

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #2 on:** August 02, 2012, 06:08:37 AM »

Like noted before we go from a week to two weeks with out power every couple years from storms. The entire area has gone for a week or so . Got by ok. 24 hours no big deal. Just last mo. Va experinced alot of storms that knocked out power in the DC area they got by for over a week in some cases . Americans in general deal with crisis just fine. Are there some who ball up and die sure , some throw a fit but most suck it up and get by.
BTW don't judge the rest of the country by what happened in New Orleans or LA.

Victor3 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 02, 2012, 08:27:38 PM »

I'm sure there would be no rioting in Beverly Hills. Ten miles away in East Los Angeles, I'd be very surprised if there wouldn't be major rioting/looting within 24 hrs without power.

In areas where you have a majority of folks invested in their own homes, local businesses and community, folks generally keep a cool head during a crisis. They have a collective incentive to preserve their property. Other areas, not so much.

This was pretty much how it broke down across the greater LA area during the Rodney King (God rest his soul) riots. My city was not affected. Five miles away in the low rent (as opposed to mortgage) district, police and National Guard were posted at every intersection to keep/restore order.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #4 on:** August 02, 2012, 11:42:27 PM »

Victor3 I believe you nailed it be it in the USA or on the Dark Continent - those who have nothing to lose cause the trouble.

ironglow · « **Reply #5 on:** August 03, 2012, 12:12:43 AM »

Power loss is obviously a common thing in India..photo #1 is from New Delhi.
In photo #2 you can see that repairmen do work on the lines. I assume they occasionally lose repairmen too..

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #6 on:** August 03, 2012, 12:14:59 AM »

Land of the extension cord and three way

Duke0313 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 03, 2012, 06:36:52 PM »

I've got enough canned and dried food to last about 6 months, around 1000 rds of assorted ammo and enough bottled water to last 3 weeks. I could definitely use more of all of that, especially water, but hopefully the power would be restored before my supplies ran out. If it was a SHTF situation, then I have contingency plans for that, also.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #8 on:** August 04, 2012, 01:00:10 AM »

It must be remembered Americans come to help others in need around the world all the time . Most of us can take care of ourselves.

keith44 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 03, 2012, 07:13:50 AM »

most problems with power in the USA are cleared up in a few hours, sometimes longer but that is not the norm. An ice storm wreaked havoc locally a few years ago, brought down 80% of the powerlines locally. Some were without power for 12 days, no riots, no looting, no panic. Amazing to some, but around here most folks are still close to the farm, and know how to live without some luxuries other areas (tightly packed cities) call needs.

just sayin'

mechanic · « **Reply #10 on:** September 03, 2012, 08:10:09 AM »

A few years ago we lost power over two weeks due to a hurricane. We never closed our business, just fired up the generator and kept on going. The major problem is loss of telephone service, which means you cannot process credit cards, etc.

We Americans by and large are a hardy group of folk who can fend for ourselves. There is a contingent who have been subsisting on the public dole their entire lives who can't get themselves out of the way of a hurricane when given two weeks notice.

We should let nature take it's course.

Ben

Victor3 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 08, 2012, 01:03:53 AM »

See there? When I'm right, I'm right! No rioting, no looting...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/09/beverly-hills-earthquake-hit-at-intersection-of-2-major-faults.html

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #12 on:** September 08, 2012, 01:42:15 AM »

Most police stations, hospitals, fire departments, water treatment plants, sewage treatment plants, some homes, and some businesses like grocery stores and grocery distribution centers have back up generators. Most use natural gas generators. I work in the natural gas industry. Natural gas regulation isn't computer controled, only computer monitored. We have converted ours from a phone line signal to radio signals. That way if the power or phone goes out, we still know what the pressure is. We can dispatch a nearby service mechanic to adjust pressure at distribution regulators as needed. These distribution regulators are mostly in underground vaults with steel lids. Normally adjustments are never needed unless someone or some thing breaks a main and there is a major pressure drop. During the last few years we have installed excessive flow valves on all services underground. If a line is cut or broken, this automatically restricts the flow.

Any prepper here knows to have a backup generator to keep his refrigerator and/or freezer operating, with some lights.

The only people seriously affected are those with all-electric homes or apartments in a long term outage. A little over 50% of American homes have natural gas usually for heat, water heat or cooking. The rest have propane, fuel oil, fire wood or worse case all-electric without a backup generator.

The worst problem with natural gas is in areas that are earthquake prone. Broken gas lines in California from earthquakes have caught fire and continuously feed the fire and can cause explosions if until someone who at a local gas company turns the proper valves off. 99% of problems with natural gas is from someone digging and damaging a gas line causing it to leak, if not at the excavation, pulling the pipe loose a distance from the excavation.

vacek · « **Reply #13 on:** November 05, 2012, 04:29:45 AM »

Well, look's like we have a data point to review the question of this post. My wife (Lisa) and I were discussing the various reactions to the super storm in New York/New Jersey. It really does get down to prepardness. One news tidbit that really struck home was the average meals in an American home is 9.

Obviously there were those who were already prepared with backup supplies that are handling all of this well, but you don't hear about those persons. Then there were the ones who managed to get some supplies before the storm, and then the rest... the ones that make the news.

I think the more urbanized a person/family is the less prepared (as a general rule) they tend to be. Living out west away from large urban areas, we tend to be a little more prepared.

Anyway, my prayers go out to all who are affected. We probably all have friends, business associates or family that we affected.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #14 on:** November 05, 2012, 04:51:39 AM »

A study was done a few years back. Average amount of food in an urban apartment, 3 days. Average amount of food in a suburban or small town home, 2 weeks. Average in a rural home several months. Urbanites usually have small apartments with no freezers and limited cabinet or pantry space. So they go to the corner market for supplies every 3-4 days. Average suburban or small town usually buys enough from paycheck to paycheck, thus the two weeks. Most rural folks can, preserve, have gardens, etc, so they put up what they raise or grow by canning and freezing.

I recommend if you can't store water, you can buy a water filter system or portable water filter if you have access to a creek or stream, you can make your own potable water. Water takes a lot of space to store. In Florida, they have hurricane bags. You put them in your bathtub, and fill them up. Holds 80-100 gallons. They cost about $25, and you can fill them before a hurricane hits, and have potable water for several weeks if the water supply gets cut off. If you have two tubs, twice as much. I have three tubs plus a seperate shower. So I can store up to 300 gallons of potable water.

Canned goods can last two years. Dry goods longer. Frozen, you must have a generator to run about 2-3 hours a day to keep stuff frozen.

Another study was done by the military. They said if an EMP bomb or giant solar flare knocks power out nationwide, within 6 weeks, as many as 100 million people could be dead, starting in the inner cities. Elderly, disabled, poor, will die from lack of food, power for life support equipment, lack of fresh water, lack of food, and unsanitary conditions. Colera, colds, flu, and pnumonia will also take their toll. Lack of antibiotics will also kill people. People will fight over fresh water and food. Rural areas will fare far better. Food and fresh water will be more available. Outhouses can be built for sanitation if running water isn't available. Most in rural areas are also armed to fight off urban bands who make it out of the cities trying to find food.

Let's see how the northeasterners cope with the cold, lack of power, lack of fresh water, lack of food for the next few weeks. Another northeaster is coming in this week bringing cold wind and rain. I thank God I don't live up there.

briarpatch · « **Reply #15 on:** November 05, 2012, 05:02:18 AM »

The problems incountered are not those that live in non urban areas. It is the big welfare centers like NYC, LA, Huston, NO etc. There is no hope, when things get a little out of the norm. Ignorance takes over and is King until someone steps in and fixes the problem.

vacek · « **Reply #16 on:** November 05, 2012, 04:29:30 PM »

It is pretty amazing that in the original post, Don Heath used the Northeast as his hypothosis. The dude must be a prophet.

geezerbiker · « **Reply #17 on:** November 10, 2012, 07:23:48 PM »

One of my concerns about a winter power outage is that my gas furnace requires electrical power to operate. Eventually I'd like to have a battery back up system with solar panels and maybe a wind generator. However I'm at least 3 years from getting a system like this in place.

With my camp stove and food storage, I could stay fed for likely long enough for the power to come back up but it would be cold as hell here. I'd like to have a wood stove but it would double the cost of my insurance.

NW Oregon hasn't had anything resembling a bad earthquake in a long time. Something like that would be harder to deal with.

Tony

keith44 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 11, 2012, 04:50:53 AM »

valid concern there Tony. It's fairly easy to power a gas furnace from either a generator, or an inverter. The only power draw being from the fan, the igniter, and a solenoid. Total draw is usually less than 20 amps (except during light up)

vacek · « **Reply #19 on:** November 12, 2012, 11:22:42 AM »

My place is all electric because there are no gas lines close. However, I have two very nice woodburning stoves that get used all winter. I have enough wood on hand for at least 3 years if not more. Comforting.

bilmac · « **Reply #20 on:** November 12, 2012, 11:34:32 AM »

The media has a habit of finding crybabys and then jamming a microphone in front of them, goes back at least to Viet Nam.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #21 on:** November 13, 2012, 02:09:53 AM »

Quote from: geezerbiker on November 10, 2012, 07:23:48 PM

One of my concerns about a winter power outage is that my gas furnace requires electrical power to operate. Eventually I'd like to have a battery back up system with solar panels and maybe a wind generator. However I'm at least 3 years from getting a system like this in place.

With my camp stove and food storage, I could stay fed for likely long enough for the power to come back up but it would be cold as hell here. I'd like to have a wood stove but it would double the cost of my insurance.

NW Oregon hasn't had anything resembling a bad earthquake in a long time. Something like that would be harder to deal with.

Tony

most gas furn use a 15 amp circuit that most any portable generator can provide power for. If you shop around you can get a gen. that runs on Nat. Gas or propane . Another option to a wood stove is a water stove . It sets out side away from the house and burns wood. It can provide heat by way of a coil in the return duct and domestic hot water. It alo could run off the same generator.

geezerbiker · « **Reply #22 on:** December 20, 2012, 09:44:05 PM »

My fears have been validated. I've had 2 power outages in the past month and while both were fixed in around 6 hours, neither were caused by very bad weather.

So I broke down and ordered one of the new model small Harbor freight generators. They're on sale for $119 plus $6.95 for shipping. I had to drive to the city a couple days ago thinking I could just pick one up but the Oregon stores don't have the new one yet. Apparently there are about a dozen improvements on this one over the older 900w generator. I'm thinking a larger computer battery backup would be a good option along with this for guarantying the heat stays on in a power outage. Hopefully the power stays on through the holidays. It would be a shame to have a houseful of family and no heat.

One good thing came out of the last power outage was that that I got all my flat wick oil lamps unpacked and working. Now I need to learn how to use my Aladdin lamp.

Tony

kid_couteau · « **Reply #23 on:** December 21, 2012, 02:56:24 AM »

Well let's seeeeeee

I live in the Northeast...Northern Maine.

We lose power at times. Once for about 4 hours in the wintertime.

When it started to get cold I simply got out the propane buddy heater and ran it till the power came back on.
We also grabbed a few battery powered Coleman lanterns and used them.

I may have checked my gun to make sure it was ready.

If the power would have stayed off I would have gotten one of my gennies out and used it.

No riots, no looting, just sat there and watched a movie on my laptop.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #24 on:** December 21, 2012, 03:28:44 AM »

My goal is to get a portable welding machine that puts out about 10,000 watts that runs on propane. Propane is cheaper than gasoline or diesel, especially in the summer. It runs clean. with a 500 gallon outside storage tank the fuel lasts forever so it is better for long term storage with good valves and piping. I have a friend with an 1800 sq ft house that has propane heat, water heat, and cooking. He uses about 800 gallons a year. So since price is way lower in summer (about half what winter uses), he bought two 500 gallon propane tanks and fills them in summer. With a propane welder/generator you kill two birds with one stone. You can weld when you need to and you can generate enough power to run a house. The generator I am looking at is about 2-3' wide and about 6' long and about 4' high. You can get a roll cart that it can fit in, so you can roll it in a truck and to make it protable.

geezerbiker · « **Reply #25 on:** December 21, 2012, 09:00:13 PM »

Quote from: kid_couteau on December 21, 2012, 02:56:24 AM

Well let's seeeeeee

I live in the Northeast...Northern Maine.

We lose power at times. Once for about 4 hours in the wintertime.

When it started to get cold I simply got out the propane buddy heater and ran it till the power came back on.
We also grabbed a few battery powered Coleman lanterns and used them.

I may have checked my gun to make sure it was ready.

If the power would have stayed off I would have gotten one of my gennies out and used it.

No riots, no looting, just sat there and watched a movie on my laptop.

I have a big buddy heater and a similar unit with 3 panels that I got at home depot. These work great in my shop but they put a lot of heat into the floor and I'm concerned that if I put them on my new laminate flooring, it would damage it. If I end up needing one in the house, I'd have to put something under it to protect the floor.

Northern Tool has a 5 panel natural gas heater like these and I'm thinking of installing one in my shop because I'm getting tired of shlepping around 7.5 gallon propane tanks... Anything smaller is too small and anything larger is too heavy for me.

It's only the intercity liberals that loot when the power goes out... The rednecks out here shoot looters so that's not likely to happen. I keep my Colt in my night stand but I haven't needed it yet...

Tony