Author Topic: .460 S&W 200 grain ftx from Hornady?(please be nice) (Read 3694 times)

ChrisK · « **on:** November 12, 2011, 10:38:52 AM »

I shot a buck this morning with this round. The deer was maybe 30 yards away slightly quartering towards me. I put my red dot right on his shoulder and pulled the trigger. I saw him mule kick and run. I saw a little blood about 40 yards away from where I shot the buck and seemed to be good and then no more blood. Anyone have any idea what happend? I didn't think that it was a bad shot. I wasn't rushed or anything. I was actually pretty relaxed.

tacklebury · « **Reply #1 on:** November 12, 2011, 11:37:17 AM »

The bullet entered and exploded perhaps on the shoulder or leg bone or rib. Then congealed blood started to fill the entrance wound. Without a pass thru, it is often harder to keep the trail. With a .460 I'd think you might do better with a gas checked lead flatnose bullet or Softpoint Jacketed if you wish to avoid leading. If you can still go to the area, I have often found a dried up trail by looking at the angle of the last footprints I could see then doing radiating lines walking in that direction for 50 yards. If you don't see it, go back to the last sign and turn about 2 degrees left or right and do it again. Also keep looking for blood, because when running sometimes the wounds will re-open.

Good luck to you and hope you find him. 8(

***edit***
and ps don't feel too bad, it happens. Just try to learn and try to improve for the next outing.

anachronism · « **Reply #2 on:** November 12, 2011, 12:25:03 PM »

I too, think your bullet let you down.

buck460XVR · « **Reply #3 on:** November 12, 2011, 02:03:35 PM »

I had a similar experience with the first deer I shot with the FTXs(they called them SSTs back then). A broadside shoulder shot @ 20 yards. Seen the bullet impact the deer, saw what looked to be meat/hair/bone fly and saw the deer go down in thick cover. Waited for the drive to finish, then went over to get my deer. Large amounts of hair and blood where I hit it. With the blood trail I didn't think it was going far....especially since it was hit in the front shoulder. After about 80 yards I lost the blood in knee deep water. I looked for two hours and never found the deer. Went back to where I shot it and there was bits of bone and flesh hanging in the brush. I too suspected the bullet exploded on impact and didn't penetrate the body cavity. Shooting the rounds into a sand berm confirmed my suspicions when the rounds would turn into silver dollar sized sheets of copper without any lead core to be found. 240 and 300 gr XTP-Mags shot into the same sand produced mushroomed bullets with cores intact. Altho the SSTs/FTXs shoot very well, I think they are too fragile for the velocities they obtain for use on deer. I use 300 gr XTP-Mags or 300 gr Speer Gold Dots/Deep Curls for deer nowadays and only use the FTXs for range use and predator hunting.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #4 on:** November 12, 2011, 02:55:48 PM »

Here is my opinion, based on one shot, one animal. Just got back from Maine. Shot a decent buck, using my SxS 45/70 rifle with the 325 grain FTX at 2050 fps. Hit him at an angle, thru the last rib. He dropped in his tracks. When we butchered him last night, I found the off side shoulder badly blood shot, along with the empty bullet jacket and some lead fragments in it. Spectacular kill, but if it had been thru a shoulder first, or on a larger animal, I don't know. Seems that bullet went to peices in the chest cavity, without hitting any serious resistance. Now your shooting the same diameter bullet, at about the same speed, with 125 grains less weight, so I think its a safe bet the bullet may have expanded to quickly. Deer is probably dead, just not in your freezer. Goes back to the old fast lightweight bullets and their (sometimes) quick kills, and slower, heavier bullets that penetrate debate. I used the FTX's this year, because they regulated best in my SxS, but next time, it will be the old 405 grain softpoint load that has worked so well in my Marlin lever action.

Larry

tacklebury · « **Reply #5 on:** November 12, 2011, 06:30:30 PM »

Yah I loaded a bunch in .45-70 and loved the accuracy and flatter trajectory. After testing on wet snow bank and water jugs I saw too much expansion, jacket separations and lotta small pieces of lead with only a few good mushrooms. I went to the 300 gr. HP by Hornady and it was better, but still explosive. First deer I shot with it was a blow out that never took a step. It went in a little higher than originally planned and entered 1/2" and came out bigger than my fist. Destroyed 5 ribs and 5 vertebrae on the far side (and cut backstraps in 1/2). I now use the 350 gr. Hornady FP Interlock with a moderate dose of Reloader7 and it'll group 6" at 250 yards with my irons in a 5 shot group. Figguring that'll do what's needed.

tacklebury · « **Reply #6 on:** November 12, 2011, 06:40:17 PM »

Sorry one more thought. Didn't notice if you reload, but thought this bullet might be a better performer for you if you do:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/602139/sierra-sports-master-bullets-45-caliber-451-diameter-300-grain-jacketed-soft-point-box-of-50
or
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/788140/hornady-xtp-bullets-45-caliber-452-diameter-300-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-magnum-box-of-50
I use the Hornady in my High power .45 Colt loads and it doesn't over expand at higher velocities like the regular XTP or the FTX.

IF you don't reload, good bullets aren't cheap. I'd probably consider: http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=125
or http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/46041-5.html

Mikey · « **Reply #7 on:** November 13, 2011, 12:20:36 AM »

There is a reason why I use heavy, hardcast flatnosed slugs for all my revolver and big bore rifle hunting - you can count on them not to expand yet cause terrible damage on the way through.

ChrisK · « **Reply #8 on:** November 13, 2011, 12:39:42 PM »

thanks guys. I thought that there wouldn't be a problem with that bullet but now I know not to do that again. I don't reload but would like to start. If I did I was use a different bullet.

ChrisK · « **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2011, 12:40:43 PM »

would be great for coyotes.

tacklebury · « **Reply #10 on:** November 13, 2011, 01:26:08 PM »

Yep, Longtom in the Handi section has gotten some yotes with his .45-70 lately.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 14, 2011, 12:52:16 AM »

All my handguns that I use for hunting get a hard cast bullet. You always get two holes.

tacklebury · « **Reply #12 on:** November 15, 2011, 02:16:04 PM »

I just shot a 4 point on at a full run with a 300 gr. Hornady XTP Magnum outta my carbine at 1800 fps. Definitely passed through.

He went 15 steps and slid into a brodie facing back my way dead. hehe

Terbltim · « **Reply #13 on:** November 23, 2011, 02:24:00 AM »

Guys,
Remember the 460 S&W (with its 200gr factory loaded bullet) was designed and intended for giving deer-killing performance at 200yds.
All of you are talking about making hits at much closer range and many of you have run some casual tests which clearly point out what went wrong with the hunt/hit in the original post.
The 200-FTX is a fragile bullet at any velocity and much more so at the extra-high velocity of close range.
I have a good freind that shoots the 460 and I make all his ammo for him.
Those 200gr factory loads give an honest 2200 fps.
Every time he gets a new box we test them on the chronograph...always spot-on!
At 50 yds they'll have only lost about 50-60 fps. Get the picture?
I make his ammo with the Hornady 300 XTP-Mag to a velocity of about 1680 fps out of his revolver.
Very accurate, plenty of power and its made for that performance range.
His normal hunting is done at under 120 yds with most shots under 80 yds.
After several deer, he reports this load "blows a big hole all the way through" and he gets the deer on the spot or very close by.

Most "deer rifles" will do the same thing if light bullets are used to make extra-fast velocity and then shot at cose-range targets...a well-known phenomenon.
In these cases the jacket is just holding the lead together.
At the speed & rotational force being applied, the lead becomes almost liquid and would fly apart if not for the jacket. Its effect on live targets can be likened to a water-baloon. The baloon [the jacket] keeps the water intact for the trip to the target. On impact the baloon [ jacket] bursts open because it was doing all it could just holding the water in place. The weight of all that water still makes a good impact but otherwise very little effect on the target.
I once saw a teenager hit in the chest by a water-baloon that was catapalt-launched from about 80 yds. The ballon knocked the kid flat on his back. (It looked like he was killed!) He had the wind knocked out of him but we [all] still wonder if it was the water-baloon or the fall that did the most "damage."

Remember, that was the original purpose of the jacket...to hold the core together for the higher velocities that smokeless powder offered. That was 100 years ago! Most of the "high-performance" rifle bullet inovations made over the last century had to do with the design of the jacket.
History is repeating itself and you guys are watching/participating.

BTW, those FTX bullets don't offer anything I need...for any reason.

yooper77 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 23, 2011, 03:46:58 AM »

Hornady 240 & 300 grain XTP-Magnum bullets are the best jacketed bullets for heavy loads in the 45 Colt, 454 Casull or 460 S&W Magnum. I also have some old Freedom Arms 260 grain soft nose bullets which are very tough as jacketed bullets go, plus there are others that will work I just haven't tried them.

I handload hard cast LBT design lead bullets for my 45 Colt and 454 Casull for my hunting applications.

I choose 310 grain plain based for my 45 Colt in Ruger Blackhawk and 360 grain gas checked for my 454 Casull in T/C Encore, both using H-110 powder.

The thing is 45 caliber pistol cartridges with the correct hard cast bullet doesn't need to expand at all, but use all its energy to drive cookie cutter holes through game at any distance.

Also hard cast true Keith design lead bullets work flawlessly as well.

yooper77

ChrisK · « **Reply #15 on:** November 23, 2011, 10:32:11 AM »

I need to start hand loading. I like the looks of the 260 grain fusion. It would be nice if they loaded the 240 and 300 grain xtp mag in the .460 S&W.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #16 on:** November 23, 2011, 11:29:40 AM »

Mostly I agree with the previous posters.
Liquified lead in the bullets... really?!?

At a bit over 2K velocity...

Hornady has three offerings for hand-loaders in the 45 cal FTX line.. 200, 225 and 250.

I shot two animals with the 200G last year form the 454 and its performance showed it was a fragile bullet at about 17=1800 I was loading it to. So I am not at all surprised that at 2200 you have shallow penetration and explosive expansion.

The 225 is meant for 45 COLT velocities, so with a 460 454 pretty much for get about it as a deer bullet.
The 250 is meant for the 450 Bushmaster and it approximates the 460 ballistics so might prove a better option if you where hooked on a pointy bullet.

I also like the Speer 300 GDSP allot, but Sierras 300 has also proven good for up to 454 velocities. The XTP MAG line are equally excellent to 454 velocities.... (These may prove good for 460 too but I do not have one to try.)

I have long been a proponent for heavy for caliber projectiles for this very reason.

CW

jy951 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 29, 2011, 03:06:03 AM »

If you must use a 200 gr bullet for your 460, I'd definitely go with the Barnes 200gr. The petals might break off, but the base will not fragment and you will get good penetration.

Fire Fox · « **Reply #18 on:** January 21, 2012, 06:29:51 PM »

I believe the bullet failed you because of hitting bone. This is the reason I have gone to the heavier bullets in my 460> I use at least 300 grain in this gun and really prefer the 360 cast . This next part may sound a little strange but I have used the 395 grain factory load with the Wide lead flat load bullet with great results on everything from deer up. My suggestion is go to a heavier bullet and the problem will be solved. Shoulder shots can be tricky. I once witnessed a deer shot with a 140 gr broad head from a 75 lb cam bow at 15 yds hit in the shoulder and the arrow bounced straight back and off of the shoulder and the deer ran off. When we recovered the arrow and were in shock it had not penetrated to the deer,s vitals. About 30 min later another hunter ( a friend). shot the same deer with his bow and arrow behind the shoulder and dispatched it. We examined the deer and found that the shoulder blade had stopped the arrow. I learned that bone can be a lot tougher than I thought. Hope this helps.

ChrisK · « **Reply #19 on:** January 23, 2012, 10:23:37 AM »

I would like to try some 325gr loads from HSM or something it the 300 grain range.

dantana · « **Reply #20 on:** April 11, 2012, 02:21:02 AM »

Quote from: ChrisK on January 23, 2012, 10:23:37 AM

I would like to try some 325gr loads from HSM or something it the 300 grain range.

I have tested several reloaded slugs and have found the Hornadys do come apart. I have settled on either the Barnes 225 grain or the Cast Performance 265 grain in my 45 WinMag.