Author Topic: Our navy's new cutting edge warship.  (Read 574 times)

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Offline powderman

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Our navy's new cutting edge warship.
« on: April 13, 2012, 05:20:56 AM »
http://www.yahoo.com/_ylt=AtVJW3zCEmq7wl8fPHjhYmebvZx4;_ylc=X3oDMTlkcjE0dDMyBF9TAzIwMjM1MzgwNzUEYQMxMjA0MTIgbmV3cyBjdXR0aW5nLWVkZ2UgbmF2eSBzaGlwIHQEY2NvZGUDcHpidWZjYWg1BGNwb3MDNTQEZWQDMQRnA2lkLTIyMDIwMzkEaW50bAN1cwRpdGMDMARsdHh0A05ld2hpZ2gtdGVjaE5hdnl3YXJzaGlwBG1jb2RlA3B6YnVhbGxjYWg1BG1wb3MDMQRwa2d0AzEEcGtndgM5BHBvcwMwBHNlYwN0ZC1mZWEEc2xrA3RodW1ibGluawR0YXIDaHR0cDovL25ld3MueWFob28uY29tL2N1dHRpbmctZWRnZS1uYXZ5LXdhcnNoaXAtYmVpbmctYnVpbHQtbWFpbmUtMDYzNzUzNzg5Lmh0bWwEdGVzdAM3MDE-/SIG=134m99bec/EXP=1334416903/**http%3A//news.yahoo.com/cutting-edge-navy-warship-being-built-maine-063753789.html
 
 
 Cutting-edge Navy warship being built in MaineAssociated PressBy DAVID SHARP | Associated Press – Thu, Apr 12, 2012     
 
  • FILE - This file image released by Bath Iron Works shows a rendering of the DDG-1000 Zumwalt, the U.S. Navy's next-generation destroyer, which has been funded to be built at Bath Iron Works in Maine and at Northrop Grumman's shipyard in Pascagoula, Miss. The enormous, expensive and technology-laden warship that some Navy leaders once tried to kill because of its cost is now viewed as an important part of the Obama administration's Asia-Pacific strategy, with advanced technology that the Navy’s top officer says represents the Navy’s future. (AP Photo/Bath Iron Works, File)
   FILE - This file image released …     BATH, Maine (AP) — An enormous, expensive and technology-laden warship that some Navy leaders once tried to kill because of its cost is now viewed as an important part of the Obama administration's Asia-Pacific strategy, with advanced capabilities that the Navy's top officer says represent the Navy's future.
The stealthy, guided-missile Zumwalt that's taking shape at Bath Iron Works is the biggest destroyer ever built for the U.S. Navy.
The low-to-the-water warship will feature a wave-piercing hull, composite deckhouse, electric drive propulsion, advanced sonar, missiles, and powerful guns that fire rocket-propelled warheads as far as 100 miles. It's also longer and heavier than existing destroyers — but will have half the crew because of automated systems.
"With its stealth, incredibly capable sonar system, strike capability and lower manning requirements — this is our future," concluded Adm. Jonathan Greenert, chief of naval operations, who gave the warship his endorsement on a visit last week to Bath Iron Works, where the ships are being built.
It wasn't always this way.
The General Accounting Office expressed concerns that the Navy was trying to incorporate too much new technology. Some Navy officials pointed out that it's less capable than existing destroyers when it comes to missile defense, and a defense analyst warned that it would be vulnerable while operating close to shore for fire support.
Even its "tumblehome" hull was criticized as potentially unstable in certain situations.
The 600-foot-long ships are so big that the General Dynamics-owned shipyard spent $40 million to construct a 106-foot-tall building to assemble the giant hull segments.
And then there's the cost, roughly $3.8 billion apiece, according to the Navy's latest proposed budget.
Including research and development, the cost grows to $7 billion apiece, said Winslow Wheeler, director of the Straus Military Reform Project at the Center for Defense Information in Washington.
Because of cost, the originally envisioned 32 ships dipped to 24 and then seven. Eventually, program was truncated to just three. The first, the Zumwalt, will be christened next year and delivered to the Navy in 2014.
But Greenert told reporters that the ship fits perfectly into the new emphasis on bolstering the U.S. military presence in the Pacific in response to Asia's growing economic importance and China's rise as a military power.
Greenert didn't go into detail on how the new ship could be used. But the Defense Department has expressed concerns that China is modernizing its Navy with a near-term goal of stopping or delaying U.S. intervention in a conflict involving Taiwan. China considers the self-governing island a renegade province.
Defense officials also see a potential flashpoint in the South China Sea, where China's territorial claims overlap with those of other countries including Vietnam, the Philippines and Malaysia.
The Zumwalt's new technology will allow the warship to deter and defeat aggression and to maintain operations in areas where an enemy seeks to deny access, both on the open ocean and in operations closer to shore, the Navy says.
Jay Korman, industry analyst with The Avascent Group, said the warship uses so much new technology that it's viewed by the Navy as a "silver bullet" answer to threats. The only problem is the cost.
"They were looking to introduce so many new technologies at once, and the cost ballooned," he said. "I don't think people have changed their minds that it's a capable ship. It's just too expensive."
Unlike another new ship entering the Navy's arsenal — the small and speedy "littoral combat ship" — the Zumwalt will be heavily armored and armed.
The Zumwalt's 155 mm deck guns were built to pound the shore with guided projectiles to pave the way for the Marines to arrive in landing craft, and they're far more cost-effective in certain situations than cruise missiles, said Eric Wertheim, author of the "Naval Institute's Guide to Combat Fleets of the World."
The smaller crew also represents a substantial cost savings, he added.
Down the road, the ship could one day be equipped with an electromagnetic railgun, a powerful weapon that uses a magnetic field and electric current to fire a projectile at several times the speed of sound.
Production will stop after three ships, and the Navy will go back to building tried-and-true Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, 510-foot-long ships featuring a versatile Aegis radar system that's being modified for ballistic missile defense. Even with modifications, the ships will cost far less than the Zumwalt-class ships.
For Bath's 5,400 workers, the Zumwalt has been both exciting and challenging, with a new design and new construction techniques. In the coming months, workers will take delivery of the composite deck house and helicopter hangar, which are being built at the Huntington Ingalls shipyard in Mississippi. Those will be placed on the Bath-built hull.
"If anybody can do it and do it successfully, then I'm confident that's us," said Jay Wadleigh, vice president of Local S6 of the Machinists Union in Bath.
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Our navy's new cutting edge warship.
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2012, 05:56:16 AM »
I'm okay with that.  plus, we need more submarines.
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Offline lakota

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Re: Our navy's new cutting edge warship.
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2012, 06:00:10 AM »
"...viewed as an important part of the Obama administration's Asia-Pacific strategy..."

 
He must be giving the ship to China
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Offline briarpatch

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Re: Our navy's new cutting edge warship.
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2012, 08:06:39 AM »
I like your thinking Lakota, That clown couldnt place a rubber duck in a bath tub.

Offline finisher

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Re: Our navy's new cutting edge warship.
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2012, 11:24:39 AM »
The rule of the "KISS" (Keep It Simple Stupid) has always worked for me even before I enlisted in the Navy. War is a big business and if there is potential conflict there is always money to be made you will always find defense and logistics contractors alongwith all the other heavy hitting resource corporations greasing the palms of the politicians and the admiralty, that is if the last two don't already have very discreet monetary interests with such companies.
 
I remember them raving about a similar ship in the 90s except that it was intended to be a sort of high speed mobile missle battery with a crew of about 50 men as opposed to the usual 2 to 3 hundred. All the space gained by cutting down on berthing space would have tripled the ships missle payload.
 
One good point about the extra guns on this new ship is that guns are far more cost effective than missles. During the first Gulf War we were lighting off Tomahawks at specific targets but the Harpoons (ship to ship) were all on hold yet the guns were hammering away all night at anything that was in the water that didn't belong there.
 
I think to history about the B29 bomber. It was introduced as this high tech super flying fortress at first, with its sealed cabin, climate control, high tech targeting and ranging devices, all cutting edge stuff at that time for a military plane. The price tag was outrageous and the smallpayload (due to the bells and whistles), the bosses felt was not making enough of a dent on the enemy.
 
So what did they do? They stripped the damn thing down to bones and defensive guns, stuffed it with as many bombs as they could and it went in and kicked ass, taking whatever the enemy had to throw at it at the same time. Keep it simple, I say and empty the pockets of all the "suits" involved.
 
 There's alittle more to this but... gotta go pick up the my young savages.

Offline finisher

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Re: Our navy's new cutting edge warship.
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2012, 12:02:18 PM »
I'm all for a strong Navy. History has shown time and again that the country with the strongest and most active navy was always the dominant world power at the time. But just like with Obama, the "new thing" may not always be what is best for the overall good. Of course we still have to learn from past mistakes as well.
 
I just feel like always, and that is that it is ALWAYS all about the money. I think that we've come to a point in our history where we've taken conventional Naval technology as far as it can go considering how small the planet is.
 
Subs can't relly hide any more if we're looking for them. Ships can only shoot down so missles before one gets through. Even then, missles cost money.
 
Sustained warfare will always come back full circle when the money runs low and the technology is no longer available. And we will fall back on the basics. Why do you think soldiers are still issued bayonets?

Offline finisher

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Re: Our navy's new cutting edge warship.
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2012, 12:16:15 PM »
I had the privilige of being one of the first American sailors ever to step on board the first Chinese warship in history to ever dock in the port of San Diego back in 97...or was it 96. Anyway, I can't say if this ship was a fair overall represntation of what they had to throw at us in a conflict, but I can say that this ship was built in the old style of WWII battleships.
 
Unlike our modern ships, it's hulls were thick  and it was armed to the teeth with guns,  and rocket batteries. That is one thing our navy has never been too big on is rockets. Seems kind of archaic but there were alot of them. Anyway, I got the impression that structurally, this ship cuold take a pounding.
 
I just don't think it is wise to bank too much of our first line defense in technology. Seems better that it is reserved as more of an "ace in the hole". But what do I know, I'm just a "swab". ;)

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Our navy's new cutting edge warship.
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2012, 12:21:07 PM »
I'm slightly out of date and not current, but... 3.8bil? Sounds like a boondoggle to me.
 
We've got more navy than the rest of the world COMBINED, or something close to it (depending upon how you do the counting). There is no agressive power threatening us at sea these days. China? Well, yeah.... China is a big player, will become bigger, and will be a bigger maritime power in the future (it's only natural). Right now, they've nowhere NEAR the navy we have. Biggest threats to our navy is getting its a-- handed to it when it starts poking others' shores. Think Persian Gulf.
 
It's a money pit, folks. A grand career, and a lot of fun, and  money pit.
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Offline Shu

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Re: Our navy's new cutting edge warship.
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2012, 06:52:34 AM »
Sigh, I had hoped this thing would die and never be ressurected. A smaller crew is great until there is a fire on board or flooding. Those never happen on a navy ship do they. A Navy ship never has to rescue any other vessels from the sea.
It sure sounds like a great concept but when you consider the capabilies lost is it really that good.
 
Iraninan swift boats do present limited danger to the US fleet but not as much as they would love for you to believe. The Phallanx gun system can easily handle them. Not to mentions helicopters and jets from the bigger ships.
 
Just a huge amout of money poured into the ocean.

Offline briarpatch

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Re: Our navy's new cutting edge warship.
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2012, 06:45:40 PM »
Its not a waste when you are the contractor and hanger on's with the big boys. Its called feeding at the trough a better term than taking money from 300 million idiots.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Our navy's new cutting edge warship.
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2012, 02:25:38 AM »

I think to history about the B29 bomber. It was introduced as this high tech super flying fortress at first, with its sealed cabin, climate control, high tech targeting and ranging devices, all cutting edge stuff at that time for a military plane. The price tag was outrageous and the smallpayload (due to the bells and whistles), the bosses felt was not making enough of a dent on the enemy.
It was an expensive thing, with very iffy engines/cooling, early on. It was fast, though...
 
Quote
So what did they do? They stripped the damn thing down to bones and defensive guns, stuffed it with as many bombs as they could and it went in and kicked ass, taking whatever the enemy had to throw at it at the same time.
Well, sort of... they could afford to strip armament off of it because it wasn't up against much of an air force... the opposition was pretty well worn out. The IJAAF/IJN was pretty depleted, most of their remaining aircraft weren't very fast, and didn't have much armament. At night, the Japanese were hopeless. LeMay's B-29s could take whatever the enemy had to throw at them because the enemy... didn't have much.
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Offline finisher

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Re: Our navy's new cutting edge warship.
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2012, 07:58:21 AM »

I think to history about the B29 bomber. It was introduced as this high tech super flying fortress at first, with its sealed cabin, climate control, high tech targeting and ranging devices, all cutting edge stuff at that time for a military plane. The price tag was outrageous and the smallpayload (due to the bells and whistles), the bosses felt was not making enough of a dent on the enemy.
It was an expensive thing, with very iffy engines/cooling, early on. It was fast, though...
 
Quote
So what did they do? They stripped the damn thing down to bones and defensive guns, stuffed it with as many bombs as they could and it went in and kicked ass, taking whatever the enemy had to throw at it at the same time.
Well, sort of... they could afford to strip armament off of it because it wasn't up against much of an air force... the opposition was pretty well worn out. The IJAAF/IJN was pretty depleted, most of their remaining aircraft weren't very fast, and didn't have much armament. At night, the Japanese were hopeless. LeMay's B-29s could take whatever the enemy had to throw at them because the enemy... didn't have much.
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Very true. But I still believe that   'high tech and expensive" is better reserved as an "ace".

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Re: Our navy's new cutting edge warship.
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2012, 08:04:53 AM »
I'm thinking this ship might ultimately be a 'sea drone'..unmanned....and be a platform for new age weapons...like the ones Putin was talking about recently. DoD is infatuated with the rail gun idea; and lazer anti-missile technology. This would extend effective range of  gun type weapons to 65miles and possiblely up to 200miles, and cheaper than missiles....this ship will be a floating power plant. You can tell who the really civilized countries...they're the ones with the most advanced weapons...
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They have to be thinking about being outside range of S300 anti-ship missiles which fly at approx 4400fps......some saying such missiles have rendered old school navy platforms obsolete...btw...artist rendition of the ship could lead one to believe it is submersible..
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The rail gun is really an exciting concept. There are so many possibilities if they could only put it to use.
 
As far as civilized, a little quote from a movie I saw "the word civilized has no place in any of the affairs of our society".
At least I think thats how it went.