Author Topic: Return of debtors prisons.  (Read 807 times)

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Offline powderman

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Return of debtors prisons.
« on: April 23, 2012, 03:15:38 PM »
http://www.yahoo.com/_ylt=Att43L0vzpLiRivxS6VtOaGbvZx4;_ylc=X3oDMTlkbmJ0NmhlBF9TAzIwMjM1MzgwNzUEYQMxMjA0MjMgZmluYW5jZSBkZWJ0b3JzIHByaXNvbiB0BGNjb2RlA3B6YnVmY2FoNQRjcG9zAzEEZWQDMQRnA2lkLTIyMzkwMzUEaW50bAN1cwRpdGMDMARsdHh0A1JldHVybm9mZGVidG9ycyYjMzk7cHJpc29ucwRtY29kZQNwemJ1YWxsY2FoNQRtcG9zAzEEcGtndAMxBHBrZ3YDNQRwb3MDMARzZWMDdGQtZmVhBHNsawN0aHVtYmxpbmsEdGFyA2h0dHA6Ly9maW5hbmNlLnlhaG9vLmNvbS9uZXdzL2phaWxlZC1mb3ItLTI4MC0tdGhlLXJldHVybi1vZi1kZWJ0b3JzLS1wcmlzb25zLmh0bWwEdGVzdAM3MDE-/SIG=136msi34a/EXP=1335316554/**http%3A//finance.yahoo.com/news/jailed-for--280--the-return-of-debtors--prisons.html
 
 
  Jailed for $280: The Return of Debtors' PrisonsCBS MoneyWatchBy Alain Sherter | CBS MoneyWatch – 7 hours ago. How did breast cancer survivor Lisa Lindsay end up behind bars? She didn't pay a medical bill -- one the Herrin, Ill., teaching assistant was told she didn't owe. "She got a $280 medical bill in error and was told she didn't have to pay it," The Associated Press reports. "But the bill was turned over to a collection agency, and eventually state troopers showed up at her home and took her to jail in handcuffs."

Although the U.S. abolished debtors' prisons in the 1830s, more than a third of U.S. states allow the police to haul people in who don't pay all manner of debts, from bills for health care services to credit card and auto loans. In parts of Illinois, debt collectors commonly use publicly funded courts, sheriff's deputies, and country jails to pressure people who owe even small amounts to pay up, according to the AP.

[Related: 5 Strategies to Pay Down Credit Card Debt]

Under the law, debtors aren't arrested for nonpayment, but rather for failing to respond to court hearings, pay legal fines, or otherwise showing "contempt of court" in connection with a creditor lawsuit. That loophole has lawmakers in the Illinois House of Representatives concerned enough to pass a bill in March that would make it illegal to send residents of the state to jail if they can't pay a debt. The measure awaits action in the senate.

"Creditors have been manipulating the court system to extract money from the unemployed, veterans, even seniors who rely solely on their benefits to get by each month," Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan said last month in a statement voicing support for the legislation. "Too many people have been thrown in jail simply because they're too poor to pay their debts. We cannot allow these illegal abuses to continue."

Debt collectors typically avoid filing suit against debtors, a representative with the Illinois Collectors Association tells the AP. "A consumer that has been arrested or jailed can't pay a debt. We want to work with consumers to resolve issues," he said.

Yet Illinois isn't the only state where residents get locked up for owing money. A 2010 report by the American Civil Liberties Union that focused on only five states -- Georgia, Louisiana, Michigan, Ohio, and Washington -- found that people were being jailed at "increasingly alarming rates" over legal debts. Cases ranged from a woman who was arrested four separate times for failing to pay $251 in fines and court costs related to a fourth-degree misdemeanor conviction, to a mentally ill juvenile jailed by a judge over a previous conviction for stealing school supplies.

According to the ACLU: "The sad truth is that debtors' prisons are flourishing today, more than two decades after the Supreme Court prohibited imprisoning those who are too poor to pay their legal debts. In this era of shrinking budgets, state and local governments have turned aggressively to using the threat and reality of imprisonment to squeeze revenue out of the poorest defendants who appear in their courts."

[Related: Spring Cleaning for Your Financial Records]

Some states also apply "poverty penalties," including late fees, payment plan fees, and interest when people are unable to pay all their debts at once, according to a report by the New York University's Brennan Center for Justice. Alabama charges a 30 percent collection fee, for instance, while Florida allows private debt collectors to add a 40 percent surcharge on the original debt. Some Florida counties also use so-called collection courts, where debtors can be jailed but have no right to a public defender.

"Many states are imposing new and often onerous 'user fees' on individuals with criminal convictions," the authors of the Brennan Center report wrote. "Yet far from being easy money, these fees impose severe -- and often hidden -- costs on communities, taxpayers, and indigent people convicted of crimes. They create new paths to prison for those unable to pay their debts and make it harder to find employment and housing as well to meet child-support obligations."

Such practices, heightened in recent years by the effects of the recession, amount to criminalizing poverty, say critics in urging federal authorities to intervene. "More people are unemployed, more people are struggling financially, and more creditors are trying to get their debt paid," Madigan told the AP.
 
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2012, 06:36:03 PM »
It'll get real exciting when people start shooting the collectors over minor amounts. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline blind ear

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2012, 06:56:43 PM »
Many businesses turn the bill over to collectors first thing now even if you arn't behind. It pushes the debtor to get the bill paid and if there are any problems with credit rateings or anything else it is up to the debtor to correct them even though he did nothing wrong. Yep gypsyman, shoot em on sight. ear
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Offline R.W.Dale

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2012, 08:02:18 PM »
I have had elderly retired and disabled VETERAN family members (husband wife) whom were hauled to jail and tossed in with the Meth heads and prostitutes over a bill Medicaid didn't pay.

IMO any police officer who does this as "part of their job" should be ashamed to call themselves a human being. It just goes to show that if the police will do this they'll have no compunction about kicking citizens doors in to confiscate guns when that day comes.

Offline Victor3

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2012, 12:20:25 AM »
 Millions of people unable to pay their mortgages are already under "house arrest."
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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Offline magooch

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2012, 04:13:47 AM »
I think people should be aware that some collection agencies might be working scams.  A while back, my wife got a bill from a collection outfit for $19.99 that was supposed to be from a movie rental place that had been out of business for several years.  Supposedly, the bill was for a movie that was not returned.  My wife said that it was bogus, so I contacted the state Attorney General's office.  I was told that they had received a rash of those kinds of complaints.  The also said that they would check with the collection agency to see if there was any proof of the debt.  About a week ago the Attorney General's office sent me an email which stated that the collection agency claims the bill was legit, but that they would not pursue it any further as a favor to the Attorney General.  Yeah right.
 
My theory is that they just use a shotgun approach, mailing out thousands of relatively minor bills that many people will pay, just to get them off their butt.  To be absolutely truthful, there is no way to prove one way, or the other if the bill was legit.  My wife said that she never received a bill from the movie rental place itself and that she never ever failed to return a movie on time.  Who am I going to believe--my wife, or a collection outfit that is trying to collect for a business that has been gone for years.  In any case, there should be a time limit for such things.
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Offline Brett

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2012, 09:36:24 AM »
 ??? If the Video store went belly up two or three years ago who is the collection company going to forward the money to if they collect any?  ???
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Offline lakota

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2012, 09:46:39 AM »
??? If the Video store went belly up two or three years ago who is the collection company going to forward the money to if they collect any?  ???

I think the agency "buys" the debt from the original creditor at a fraction of it's value and then they keep any money they recover.
 
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Offline SwampThing762

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2012, 03:52:12 PM »
??? If the Video store went belly up two or three years ago who is the collection company going to forward the money to if they collect any?  ???

I think the agency "buys" the debt from the original creditor at a fraction of it's value and then they keep any money they recover.
 
Hope and Change in action!

lakota, you are correct.  If a creditor goes out of business, the collector can keep any and all moneys recovered on the debt.

If the debt is over seven years old, it is considered "zombie debt", and you are under no requirement to pay it.   Yet another "zombie" for the apocalypse.....

ST762
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Show your appreciation for Islam....eat more bacon.

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Offline finisher

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2012, 10:09:46 PM »
Lakota and Swampthing are correct more or less. Once the creditor or company declares the debt legaly defaulted, they simply cut their losses and write it off with the IRS.
 
We'll say that the majority of people are "honest" (truthfully just don't know any better), they struggle to pay their debt not knowing that the creditor, by declaring the defaulted debt on their taxes as a loss, has released any claim to said debt.
 
However, because of loop holes in privacy laws (* read the fine print in your credit applications about how you give the creditor the right to release specific information about you to certain authorized parties [collectors]), they are able to basically sell your personal information to these collectors (as a "product"), thereby recovering some of their loss while legaly retaining the right to write it off.
 
Your credit score takes a sh** for seven years and that is about the extent of what they can do.(There are deeper lying reasons for this also that involves the federal bankand the way it operates and derives its power but again...books and books of laws and hours of reading, but I'll elaborate a little more on that in a bit.)
 
This usually has already taken place by the time the collectors call and tell you that they "represent" the original creditor. They only "represent" themselves and because of peoples ignorance of the laws, combined with some very smooth, intimidating, and often harrassing talkers, they are able to badger a great many people into handing over the money to a debt that in a legal sense no longer exists (IE the zombie debt).
 
In certain cases though, it is different , such as a home loan, certain auto loans, any debt involving a government agency, a bankers cash line of credit. But for the more common stuff like utilities, credit cards, even hospital bills and student loans (unless the last two happen to be federally or state funded) once the debt has gone default, it has simply become a sort of legalized extortion game on the part of the collectors.
 
I wish I could provide you with more specific details (you must do the research on your own and its alot of complex, legalese reading), but I only had the general run down passed to me by an "aquaintance" who had done some minor federal time for white collar crime. This guy was a suit wearing wall street tax shark and he was loaded before he got cracked by the feds. Come to think of it, he's still loaded.
 
The simplest and most comprehensive way to start for the layman (you and me/ not BS talking lawyers) is by reading the book "Debt Cures They Don't Wan't You to Know" by Kevin Trudeau. YESSS!!! I already know that he's quite a bit of a flim flam man himself but I know people personally who have manged to keep their rooves over their heads by following some of his advice to the letter.
 
He is the same guy that wrote the "Natural Cures" books and I can say that I am a much healthier person for having followed some (not all) of the advice given in those books. I have yet to read the "credit" books but I was told by this white collar guy that it was an "easy" place to start. I've put it off becuase I was fortunate enough to have not put myself so far into debt that I couldn't pay off my accounts when concrete work in SO.CAL took a crap.
 
It took some serious changes in lifestyle on the parts of my wife and I but now we live a much simpler and slower paced life here in Medford, OR and it has been good for the whole family.
 
You must inform yourselves from sources other than mainstream media. So many of us just don't find the time while earning a living and raising families but we must! There are too many greedy evil a**holes in suites out there who only see you and me and our children as walking dollar signs.  Change starts at home! Not with the puppets on TV.
In the past ten years, I have painfully learned that credit is something to avoid like the plague if you DON'T NEED IT!
 
Like everthing else that is run by someone in a suit, if you look close enough, you will find some kind of ill goings on with $$$dollar signs$$$ attached..
 
 

Offline powderman

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2012, 04:34:01 AM »
I took a fall a few weeks ago and my left ft and ankle is still badly swelled with the side turning a kinda purple. I can walk but hurt a lot. If it isn't better by next week I'm going to the hosp and tell em I'm pedro,no sika englis, then I'll get some help. POWDERMANISTA.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline finisher

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2012, 08:08:50 AM »
I took a fall a few weeks ago and my left ft and ankle is still badly swelled with the side turning a kinda purple. I can walk but hurt a lot. If it isn't better by next week I'm going to the hosp and tell em I'm pedro,no sika englis, then I'll get some help. POWDERMANISTA.  :o :o
***********
...left ANKLE eh, "a KIND of purple" eh... "Pedro..."? ??? ::)  Hmmmm.
 
Funny thing, I have an in-law who is a decorated career Marine. Crazy fool actually completed basic on a fractured ankle. I know because I was one of the drunk knuckleheads that helped fracture it the week before he left. He wasn't about to tell his recruiter. Sorry about that Pete(Peter). Take a guess what his original name was before he changed it after being alienated and ostracised in college by "juan" too many ignorant Jack**s's.
 
How many Silver Stars and CMH's do the "Pedros" in history have to receive before earning immunity to such attitudes? Oh! Forgive me. I forgot! Before the so called "War On Terrorism" the "Pedros", as an "ethnic" group already collectively had received more CMH's than any other ethnic group.
 
I believe the ribbons are ALL blue with stars regardless of the recipients name or "ethnic" background.
 
Oh yeah, I happen to have some of the "Pedro" mixed back in the wood pile also and I went through basic on a wrist that I fractured during DEP training. I didn't get it treated because I couldn't afford it and I said nothing to my recruiter because I had a less qualified, less educated overpriviliged "Adolf" in line behind me who would have been handed the SAR billet that I had to school for and earn while I was in DEP.
 
ALL of my shipmates were NAVY BLUE in my eyes. HoooYahhh!

Offline powderman

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2012, 02:24:33 PM »
Finisher. You missed my point. Were I an illegal invader I could get treated FREE, and never get a bill. OK, I'll be pancho. POWDERMAN.  ;) ;)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline SwampThing762

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2012, 03:39:57 PM »
I am Cornholio....I come from Lake Titicaca.....We have many burritos where I come from....... ;D ;D

LOL

ST762
We learned the true nature of Islam on 11 Sept 2001.

Show your appreciation for Islam....eat more bacon.

"Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam." (Not to us Lord, not us, but to your name give the glory)  -- Knights Templar motto

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2012, 12:01:59 AM »
The one who has real proof of racial purity is in real danger because he/she will never be able to marry.
Let's get over this racial thing--it offends my mixed heritage somewhere down the line.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline finisher

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2012, 11:06:15 AM »
The one who has real proof of racial purity is in real danger because he/she will never be able to marry.
Let's get over this racial thing--it offends my mixed heritage somewhere down the line.
Blessings
Thank you sir.

Offline powderman

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2012, 11:38:09 AM »
Nothing racial about it, Simply stating the facts. Free med care is available to criminal invaders, as a white American it is not to me, nothing racial about that, just the way it is. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline finisher

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Re: Return of debtors prisons.
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2012, 07:47:15 PM »
Nothing racial about it, Simply stating the facts. Free med care is available to criminal invaders, as a white American it is not to me, nothing racial about that, just the way it is. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
I got your point just fine. And believe it or not I empathize with your situation as free medical care is also not available to me. I do not see, however, the significance of skin color other than being used as fuel to perpetuate hatred and bigotry. No. I will not allow myself to even tread on those waters.
 
Criminal invader is a term with which I can agree, but there are too many damn "Panchos" that have sacraficed ALL in service to this country so that so many "white americans" can openly express their bigotry and there are plenty more "Panchos" that still do so.
 
You should visit LA, California. The "criminal invaders" there don't all come from where you might think. And compared to these people, the invaders to which you refer are relatively harmless. Been over seas in the last couple decades or so?
 
But even if I could pronounce some of the names; like them in the country or not; like them or not; they're all still PEOPLE to me. And if there is one thing my travels have shown me is that trash comes in ALL colors and ethnic backgrounds.
 
Damn those ILLEGAL INVADERS!!! Should have let 'em starve that first winter they showed up >:(  Bigue sm-heil :)  Bigue sm-heil :)  Mein herr.