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Offline bikerbeans

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Alliant's BP Substitute
« on: May 09, 2012, 05:45:12 AM »
Hi All,
 
Anybody loading cartridges with Alliant's latest BP subsitute.  The name is escaping me, Black MZ maybe? 
 
thanks
 
BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

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MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline Ranch13

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Re: Alliant's BP Substitute
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2012, 09:39:53 AM »
Why not just keep things simple, load real blackpowder.
If you don't want to mess with the cleanup, smokeless powder is wonderful stuff.
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Offline bubba.50

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Re: Alliant's BP Substitute
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2012, 10:55:43 AM »
i don't know it for fact but read on another forum that it's american pioneer powder in new packagin'. if that's the case i wouldn't put it in anything i thought very much of. used it to load some 50-70s. while shootin' some groups with it the brass started turnin' green before i could shoot 3 shot groups. then when i put'em in a jug with some cleanin' solution they turned black. tumblin' did not bring'em back to brass color. as they say, your mileage may vary. this is just my very brief experience with it. for what it's worth, bubba.
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Alliant's BP Substitute
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2012, 01:29:26 PM »
Quote from: Ranch13 on May 09, 2012, 09:39:53 AM
Why not just keep things simple, load real blackpowder.
If you don't want to mess with the cleanup, smokeless powder is wonderful stuff.

From your response I assume you know nothing regarding Alliant's BP substitute powder.
 
BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline Ranch13

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Re: Alliant's BP Substitute
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2012, 02:00:39 PM »
Quote from: bikerbeans on May 09, 2012, 01:29:26 PM
Quote from: Ranch13 on May 09, 2012, 09:39:53 AM
Why not just keep things simple, load real blackpowder.
If you don't want to mess with the cleanup, smokeless powder is wonderful stuff.

From your response I assume you know nothing regarding Alliant's BP substitute powder.
 
BB
Give the boy a cupidol... ::)
 Good lord whats to know :'( another supposed bp substitute.... boy oh boy something to get wound up about thats for sure.... :-\
Never understood the excitement about any of the fake crap, none of it will shoot as well as blackpowder, so why bother with the fake smoke? If you don't want to clean up bp then shoot smokeless.
Blackpowder is readily available anywhere a UPS or Fedex truck will deliver to, so the ballbaby "I can't get blackpowder locally" whine doesn't cut it.
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Alliant's BP Substitute
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2012, 03:00:41 PM »
Let's see, I now know that you like BP and don't like BP substitutes.  I also know that either you will not or cannot respond to a question with an answer. 
 
FWIW, "BOY" your manners are very short of respectable.
 
BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline Ranch13

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Re: Alliant's BP Substitute
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2012, 03:06:33 PM »
Do you find it odd that Alliant doesn't even provide cartridge data for the stuff? The only thing they really have to say about it is , the only good load they had with it was in a 50 cal muzzleloader with 90 grs volume and compressed the snot out of it with the sabot....
 They list cowboy action cartidge loads as secondary....
 Now what exactly is it you don't like about real blackpowder?
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In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Alliant's BP Substitute
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2012, 03:16:02 PM »
Never said I didn't like BP, in fact I didn't mention BP in my original post.  I asked a very simple question, has anyone tried the Alliant BP sub. powder in a cartridge.  I asked or said nothing more or nothing less.  If I want to take your approach to this thread I guess I would ask you why you feel the need to protect and defend your cherished holy black?   
 
Moderator, please lock this thread and if someone has experience loading Black MZ in a cartridge would you be kind enough to send me a PM regarding your experience?
 
bubba.50
 
I thank you for your response and I will look into the connection between these two powders.
 
thanks
 

BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline Ranch13

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Re: Alliant's BP Substitute
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2012, 03:30:45 PM »
The repackaged APP is a possibility and that stuff don't work for sour owl crap in cartridges when compared to good black or smokeless loads.  Matter of fact Goex's Pinnacle powder was nothing more than APP in Goex cans...
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In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline John Boy

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Re: Alliant's BP Substitute
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2012, 05:28:31 PM »
Read the Alliant Black Mz MSDS sheet.  Note that it emits toxic fumes of Nitrogen Oxide and K2O
For me that would be a show stopper
Also note:
Storage - Protect from moisture ... but yet on their website ...
Quote
Moisture resistant and virtually non-corrosive, Black MZ replicates black powder performance without the ignition headaches and cleaning hassles common to traditional black powder use.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/downloads/msds/Black_MZ.pdf.

 And what does this tell a knowledgeable substitute or black powder shooter ...
Quote
Make sure that the barrel is clean and totally dry (swab barrel with dry patches until there is no evidence of moisture).

No, I have never reloaded it.  In fact I haven't much of any of the substitutes except twice using Hodgdon Triple Seven in a 30-30 and a 45-70 

bikerbeans, to really determine how many reload it and it's attributes, it would be best to post yoyr question on a muzzle loading forum

And biker, it's obvious you have not read the Sticky about what this blackpowder forum rules of posting are ... http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,77656.0.html

Accordingly - end of discussion on this thread
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Regards
John Boy
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