A question about removing breech plugs and powders used ?

[jh45gun]

Randy and who ever else wants to chime in. I am also a moderator at a other site and I was trying to answer a question for a member and thought I would get more info here. I know that breech plugs and 777 do not always get along even when greased well. The guy and 2 of his buddys had new CVA ultra Mag 50's and all of them though they greased the breech plugs could not get them out and buggered them up and broke the tools trying to get them out. my questions are does other powders give you the breech plug problems of getting " Stuck" even when greased with anti sieze? Or is it only a 777 problem? Does Heavy charges of 777 or other powders compoud the problems they were using 130 grains of 777 which would equal a 150 grain charge of other powders according to the 15 % figure that 777 claims it has and I do believe that. SO is this just a 777 problem or does the other powders give you the same problems??? I grease my Huntsman plug well and have loosened it after a few shots to make sure it does not become stuck as I have had it become stuck also if I shoot a lot of shots with out removing it. I used some Militech grease and that seemed to work well but still you get stiff going when removing the plug. Gorilla grease seemed to be no better and the tape did not work for me at all. Any answers?? I can relay and for my self also. Jim

[RandyWakeman]

The guy and 2 of his buddys had new CVA ultra Mag 50's and all of them though they greased the breech plugs could not get them out and buggered them up and broke the tools trying to get them out. my questions are does other powders give you the breech plug problems of getting " Stuck" even when greased with anti sieze? Or is it only a 777 problem? Does Heavy charges of 777 or other powders compoud the problems they were using 130 grains of 777 which would equal a 150 grain charge of other powders according to the 15 % figure that 777 claims it has and I do believe that.

Bostik Never-Seez (Perma-Tex "Anti-Seize), both Mil-Spec 907E have given good results. I'm not aware of Pyrodex problems, but T7 leaves a harder, sugary bond-- as that's what it is. More T7, sure, more fouling.

But, 3-4 shots, crack the breech plug loose 1/4 turn, retighten-- then shoot all day if you like. The "shoot and crack" method has not stuck any breech plugs for me, not even close-- normally coming out with just finger pressure.

A thorough brush cleaning of the breech plug's internal barrel threads does not seem to be as common a practice as it should be.

[jh45gun]

Thanks Randy I will pass that good info on with your credit of course and I am glad to know about the crack and retighten trick as I have done that as I said but not religiously now I know. Thanks again Jim

[Mel Taylor]

Toby Bridges has a system on his website for lubricating the breech plug and vent liner on a Savage ML that seems to work very well with everything including 777. I suspect it would work equally well with most, if not all, frontloaders. The URL is http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/ and the info is contained in the Tech Info and Feedback links there.

For loosening breech plugs that are already seized, Markesbery makes a product called Rusty Duck Black Off Black Powder Cleaning Solvent that is the best stuff I’ve ever seen.

A couple of years ago I was using Triple 7 and seized the breech plugs in both my Savage ML’s. I got both of them loose by pouring Black Off down the barrel and letting them soak. In about ten minutes I was able to remove the plug from one although it did take some effort. I left the second one soak while I did some other things and when I came back four hours later the plug turned out easily. Before I thought of the Black Off I had tried everything else I could think of including several different solvents and oils, a vise and a cheater.

A few months later I was on an elk hunt when two guys on the same hunt were complaining about their Knights misfiring. It turned out they had switched from sidelocks four years before, bought the Knights used and didn’t know they could or should remove the breech plugs. So for four years they had been shooting Pyrodex and cleaning their inlines the old fashioned way - through the muzzle.

They borrowed a wrench and some penetrating oil from my hunting partner and spent most of the next hour struggling to get the plugs out.  Finally I suggested they try some of my Black Off. Within ten minutes of applying it they had both breech plugs out.

I Believe it costs about 13 dollars a pint in less than case lots and, in my opinion, is well worth it. I use it for cleaning my guns everytime I use either Pyrodex or 777. It does a great job of getting rid of the crud from both of those.

If it isn't available at a local gun shop you can order it directly from Markesbery. It is not the same as the Rusty Duck Gun Action Solvent that Wal Mart carries in an aerosol can.

The item number and product description is RD-750   Rusty Duck 16 oz. Black Off Black Powder Solvent. You can find it on Markesbery’s website at: http://www.Markesbery.com/Accessories.htm but I think you have to order it by phone. Markesbery’s phone number is: 859-342-5553

Mel

[jh45gun]

Thanks Mel I will Pass this Info on! Jim

[Mel Taylor]

jh45gun,

The real problem with 777 for me was that I used the stuff a bunch of times without any problems except for the plug being a little harder to unscrew than it was with smokeless or Pyrodex. Then, one day I went to the range, shot each rifle 15 times (I had often shot that many times or more) and when I got home - Bingo! Both plugs were frozen solid. Nothing was done differently that trip and I never did figure out why it happened then and not before. I've since talked to two other guys who had it happen the same way and one guy who had it freeze the plug on two H&R Huntsman rifles, with less than ten shots from each rifle, the first time out.

I still like the stuff much better than Pyrodex (Ican't hunt with smokeless in New Mexico) and have recently started using it again. So far, with Toby's method of lubing the breech plug I've had no further trouble.

I've shot a bunch of times with both smokeless and Pyrodex at one time without any breech plug problems. Only the 777 has given me grief. It's still the best BP substitute going as far as I'm concerned though.

Mel

[AllenRead]

Randy is right about the cleaning.  

If you leave just a little 777 crud in the bottom of the threads, it will be more likely to stick.  

I've found that chucking a 12 ga brass brush in my low speed drill does a great job of cleaning the threads.  I don't know if this will cause any damage over time, but it beats the plastic bristle brushes that are sold for this purpose.

When my huntsman was new, it needed cleaning every 10 to 15 shots as long as I turned the plug every 5 shots.  As the crud built up in the threads, I had to turn the plug every 3 shots.  Thats when I realized that I was not getting the threads clean.  Even the threads on the plug took more & more effort to clean.  

I tried the Militec grease in conjunction with power cleaning and turning every 5 shots.  I was able to shoot 45 rounds without regreasing and the plug was just beginning to get hard to turn.   I ran  out of daylight before I could find out how many rounds it would take to get stuck to the point where I needed a lot of effort & leverage.

My new cleaning regimen adds the 12 ga brass brush in the low speed drill for both the inside threads and the plug threads.

After that, I don't think it matters which grease is used.