Case Fillers

[Sky Pup]

I just finished reading over a lot of posts about use of case fillers with cast bullets.  There seems to be three camps on this issue...those that use them successfully, those that warn to never use them for various reasons and those that seem to waffle back and forth.  This seems to be the same theme across a lot of forums.

In the past I have used several types with mixed results, including kapok, dacron and cereal.  The calibers were 30-06, 30-30 & 6mm.  Dacron seemed to produce the most consistant results.  I never experienced any problems that are warned about, ie; ringed chambers, etc.  In my shooting I strive for accuracy with velocity being a distant secondary.  Most of my loads run in the 1300-1900 range, (chronographed), not estimated.  I have used just about every imaginable powder out there.

I'm currently working a 32 Special with various bullets, plain based and gas checked.  I have found a substance called PSB, (Precision's Spherical Shotshell Buffer).  I haven't used it yet.  Has anyone tried this?  What kind of results were obtained?

I have seen a couple articles about it with positive recommendations.  Not being one to put all my stock in what someone writes I thought I would turn to discussion.  You feller's seem to be the experts, with the expertise gained through experience.  Any input would be appreciated.

[Nobade]

I've been using Ballistic Products shot buffer in some loads with good results. It's granulated polyethelyne, I think. It works great where needed but unless I absolutely have to use fillers I try to avoid it. But this load of WC680 in the 7.62X39 is an absolute tack driver with the filler at 1700 fps, that I guess I'm stuck with it until I find something that will shoot as well at the speed I want.

[Sky Pup]

Nobade...thanks for the input.  I posted the same query on the Cast Boolits forum and rec eived good discussion.  If someday it warms up, I'll run some tests with the PSB.  If the results are positive, I'll post the info.
Question, do you routinely crimp your cast bullets?  I don't.  I fire singly so I don't find it necessary.  If you do...how heavily?  Tks...SkyPup

[richp41]

Sky Pup - Over the last 35 years I have used fillers for some loads without any problem whatsoever. Most have been kapok before dacron was available.  All were with bullets that extended down into the body of the case. The only powders I use for lead bullets are SR4759, 2400 and 4198, none of which are terribly position sensitve. The disadvantages are minor but noteworthy. Dacron will leave sticky black residue on the case necks and kapok will sometimes exit the rifle without being totally consumed. With the light  loads I use --1600 to 1800 FPS-- I use 3/4 to 1.0grs of either and just seat it lightly on the powder. Rich P

[Dand]

I picked up some of this Super Sam a couple years ago hoping to use it in some 348 win loads.  Have been hesitant to try it without some advice.  And had quit playing with the 348.  Closest I could find when I was looking for that super grex stuff.

Well now I'm back on the 348 thanks to BrushBuster   - and ran some 35 rounds over the chrono today.  Some of my loads with IMR 3031 leave a lot of room in the case and show pretty wide velocity ranges 117 to 175 FPS for 5 shots.  

So - anybody tried this Super Sam buffer for cast loads? Same as that PSB I think Super Sam is supposed to work with steel shot too - can't remember for sure.

Any advice is welcome.

[Kragman71]

Sky Pup,
99 percent of the Shooters who use Dacron,never have any trouble with it.
Some Shooters seem more comfortable with cotton,or Kapok.
Some use cereal,like in the olden days.
There is a product,called PuffLon,which is made just to be used as a filler,and is supposed to be completely safe.
It's expensive,but maybe worth it,for the peace of mind.
I use it,myself,for hunting loads.
Frank

[USARO4]

IVE GOT ABOUT 60ROUNDS THAT I LOADED WITH COTTON FILLER AND NOW IM AFRAID TO SHOOT THEM.  I PUSHED THE COTTON ALL THE WAY DOWN ON THE POWDER AND NOW I HERE ITS THE SPACE BETWEEN THE FILLER AND THE BULLET THAT CAUSES CHAMBER RINGING. SEEMS TO ME THE POWDER WOULD BURN UP THE COTTON. SHOULD I BE SAFE AND PULL THE BULLETS?

[Forest T]

rule of thumb if in dought pop those babbies apart and start over

[JBMauser]

USARO4, If you are not comfortable with the cotton then pull them.  The thing about cotton and kapok and dracron is that all three have very little mass and weight.  If they are not burned and are pushed against the bullet there is very little mass to them to convert to kinetic energy like a card wad.  The thing about chamber ringing is that some have tried to do it on purpose to try and establish if there is a problem and they have not been able to do it.  Load manuals like Lyman have been listing a filler in some cast loads for years.  Having said that, some have ringed their barrels.  From what I understand the rings are generally a few inches down the barrel and not right at the neck which adds to the mystery.  My kapok filler loads shoot a bit tighter than without filler.  I use as little material as I can to regulate the position of the powder and nothing more.  I would not fill a cartridge with filler.  That I feel would be pushing my luck.  JB

[Leftoverdj]

I'm in the off and on camp. I'm not real comfortable with fillers, but they can help so much I use them anyway in rifles I can readily rebarrel. Never had a problem, but the Law of the Contrariness of the Universe says the problem would happen to an $800 rifle the first try. Handis and $100 milsurp ain't worth the universe's effort.

[jh45gun]

I look at it this way I called Lyman and they do not reccommend using fillers  any more. Since I value my guns I will not take a chance.  You can shoot maybe thousands of times with out a mishap but it only takes one to ruin your barrel. From what I can figure out I am using 2400 which is not position sensative and since the loads I am useing are more powerful than squib loads I feel they are safe to shoot with out filler as there is a space but I am not shooting the ultra fast powders either like a few grains of bullseye like a plinker load. The loads I am shooting are at least in the 1400 to `1600 area so they should be fine as is.  I figure shooting cast loads you can pretty much shoot forever with out wearing out the barrel why take a chance and ruin it with a suspect practice. Now I am talking fiber fillers I would suppose grain type would be safe but if any one has any info on that please post it. Jim

[Robert]

I stuck a cast bullet in an old barrel using Cream of Wheat as a filler for a reduced load.  I have heard other people report this also with cartridges that have a shoulder.  You can bounce a cleaning rod off of it.  I wouldn't use it anymore except with straight walled cases, however....I have heard that it is good for cleaning the bore.
  I have also heard of people using it for fire-forming wildcat brass.  This is not surprising that it would cause chamber pressure to form brass....if it clumps together behind the shoulder and becomes a solid mass...I would not doubt that it would cause pressure forcing it though the neck. Maybe TOO MUCH pressure.
  I haven't tried other fillers, but for MY needs I can just skip the filler and stick to bulky powders or powders that aren't so position sensitive.  I like XMP 5744 for reduced loads, and for reaslly light loads I use on average of 4-5 grs of Red-Dot.  Neither one of these has been any problems with-out fillers.
  To get a safe XMP 5744 load, fill a cartridge to where the base of the bullet will be seated, then dump it out and weigh it. Multiply the (grains) weight by .4  for a safe starting load.

[Chargar]

The subject of fillers can always get a good discussion going among folks who shoot cast bullets.

I don't/won't use toilet paper, cotton, dacron etc, because of the risk that air in the cartridge can be compressed and the filler become a pistol than can ring the chamber. I know it is slight, but it is there.

I don't/won't use corn meal, grits, coffee etc, as sometimes they contain moisture and can either expand or harden into a cake.

I do believe that cast bullets do best with medium to slow burning powders and these powders work best when loading density is 100%

Therefore I use PSB to top off the powder charge to provide a slight compression and 100% loading density. No air, no powder rattling around, no elevating the muzzle, no chance of SEE.

In the bargin, I get excellent accuracy.