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Author Topic: Problems with the 357 Max on sb1  (Read 1328 times)

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Offline cudatruck

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Problems with the 357 Max on sb1
« on: June 19, 2012, 09:43:26 PM »
I'm thinking i may have to give up on the sb1 frame and break down and buy an sb2? I am having pierced primers with any standard pistol loads. 38s or 357s with rifle primers are ok. but when going to max cases with published startring loads i've got bulged primers flowing back into the firing pin hole! not with all loads but im getting tired of pulling bullets. really wanted this to work. but im new to the hobby of re loading and trying to be xtra carefull. any other suggestions? I have tried H110 for most loads and have lil gun hp38 and bullseye on hand. should i try another powder? am i crimping too heavy? is the large firing pin a problem for anyone else or just this rifle? i really do not want to be out on the edge of safety here. any advice would be helpfull. And yes i have loading manuals and have read them. there just isn't enough info on this for me.
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Offline Jason F

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Re: Problems with the 357 Max on sb1
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2012, 10:08:00 PM »
I would guess the large firing pin is the problem. When i first reamed mine to max it was on a small pin Sb1 and i didnt have any problems with it.
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Problems with the 357 Max on sb1
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2012, 12:22:50 AM »
cuda,
 
What type of primers are you using?  IIRC, a lot of folks use small rifle primers for their 357 maxi loads.  When I had a maxi I used H110, up to Hodgdon's maximum, for both 180 & 200 grain bullets w/o any primer problems, but I had a small f-pin SB1.  I was using Federal Small Pistol Mag Primers. 
 
BB
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: Problems with the 357 Max on sb1
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2012, 04:42:41 AM »
My Lyman manual calls for small rifle primers in the Max.
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Offline yukondog

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Re: Problems with the 357 Max on sb1
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2012, 06:28:41 AM »
Same here with the sm. fireing pin hole, I also think your problem is the large pin hole.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Problems with the 357 Max on sb1
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2012, 08:44:28 AM »
Use the 'hardest' primers recommended and back the load (powder charge) off by 10% from what you are using now. Try it and tell us what happened.
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Offline YRUpunting?

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Re: Problems with the 357 Max on sb1
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2012, 09:27:41 AM »
Try CCI small rifle primers and no crimp.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Problems with the 357 Max on sb1
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2012, 09:34:09 AM »
As you can see from the primer cup thickness of various SR primers, just using a CCI primer(400) isn't necessarily gonna help, use those that have thicker cups and you'll likely solve the problem, Rem 7½ worked for me.  ;)

Tim

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/primers-and-pressure-analysis/
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Offline cudatruck

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Re: Problems with the 357 Max on sb1
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2012, 06:52:46 PM »
ok i have tried 38s with wsp primers and had pierced primers. switched to federal small rifle primers with 38s and 357s were ok. 357s near top book loads had very slight cratering. Max cases with loads from manuals i had a few pierced primers and this last time out i tried remington 7 1/2 br primers and some with the federals. both primers flowed back into the firing pin hole some enough to make it difficult to open the action. this only happened with the 158 xtp. the 140 ftx over 20 and 21 grains of H110 showed no problems. so far what you guys have said leads me to believe i need a small firing pin. any other ideas? Oh, all of these Max loads were with H110. the 38s with wsp were loaded over hp 38. should i try another powder or am i tempting fate?
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Problems with the 357 Max on sb1
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2012, 02:12:01 AM »
FWIW
A wise man once told me," If what you are doing ain't workin', try something else".
I dont see you specify where you tried (at least) a 10% less load than max. All reloading manuals advise starting low and working your way up to max, unless you have indications, such as you have, to stop or back off a tad. There is nothing wrong with shooting a load less than max if it makes your gun work.
Start with a lower load, if OK, increase the charge a bit. Work your way up like this until you get 'signs' than you have reached your limit with these components. Then back it off a tad and see if your function is OK again. If it is, note it in your records and sit down and get serious about shooting groups and forget about it 'not being a maximum load'.
If it shoots good groups you can sit back and smile ( ;D ) and the targets or critters arent likely to know the difference.
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Offline revbc

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Re: Problems with the 357 Max on sb1
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2012, 05:27:08 AM »
Are you using a shotgun SB1 frame?  If so, the large firing pin is the problem.  These guys gave you a lot of info to get around the issue; however, I never had a problem with my SB1 RIFLE frame.

Hope it works out for you.
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Offline Jason F

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Re: Problems with the 357 Max on sb1
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2012, 06:22:13 AM »
Quote from: revbc on June 21, 2012, 05:27:08 AM
Are you using a shotgun SB1 frame?  If so, the large firing pin is the problem.  These guys gave you a lot of info to get around the issue; however, I never had a problem with my SB1 RIFLE frame.

Hope it works out for you.

Quote from: Jason F on June 19, 2012, 10:08:00 PM
I would guess the large firing pin is the problem. When i first reamed mine to max it was on a small pin Sb1 and i didnt have any problems with it.
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handi rifles- 22 mag      22 hornet    223      7mm-08      308 chip shot     30-30 x2     30-06 shorty      358 cheez whiz     357 max     35 remington     375-08    410 rifled slug     454 casull     460 s&w     45 smokeless muzzleloader x2     45-70    50 huntsman    50-70 government shikari     20 ga.ush     12 ga.ush    12 ga.3 1/2     10 ga.imp.cyl. slug gun

Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Problems with the 357 Max on sb1
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2012, 08:26:22 AM »
One other primer options would be to use CCI #41s, if you can find them.  These are small rifle primers meant for the AR15/M14 platform and are made tougher in the cup area because the design for these autoloaders results in the f-pin bumping the primer when a round is chambered.  41s are supposed to prevent slam fires in the black guns so maybe they will  not flow into your f-pin channel?  Whether or not the 41s would cause FTFs in a Handi i do not know.
 
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Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

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MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Problems with the 357 Max on sb1
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2012, 09:30:19 AM »
Lil'gun powder may be the answer, Hodgdon's Hornet data shows good velocity with considerably less pressure compared to the other powders,  Lil'gun may work the same in the Maxi, the Hornady 8th list it for 160-200gr bullets in the TC Maxi data, they use Rem 7½ primers too.  ;)

Tim
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Offline cudatruck

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Re: Problems with the 357 Max on sb1
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2012, 05:36:11 AM »
Tim, i don't have that hornady manual, could you pm me that data? or at least a starting load? I have 158 and 180 xtps, 180 sierra fpj, and 140 ftx bullets to try and lil gun on hand. just can't find any loading data for this combination.
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