What the government says you can't do with your TC pistol or rifle.

[Freezer]

If I'm correct the Encore serial number will designate what it is with a pistol frame beginning in the letter "P".

[Grumulkin]

Austin,
The FFL you buy it from has to put down what it is sold as.  Either it is a pistol frame or a rifle frame.  They might sell you just a frame but it is designated as either a pistol or rifle.

They used to do that but currently if it comes as a bare frame, they don't designate it as a rifle or a pistol; just as a frame.


In addition, in those cases where the FFL holder has in the past designated a frame as a pistol frame, I believe that would be adequate for States that required handgun registration but I doubt it would change the fact, as far as the BATFE is concerned, that the frame was sold elsewhere originally as a rifle frame.


Also, I don't think T/C has  "P" in the serial number of pistol frames.  There is an "S" for stainless frames and "C" for camo frames.  Who knows what blue frames have since I've never owned one.  You can, however, call T/C, give them the serial number and they'll tell you in what configuration the frame was originally in when sold.

[GRIMJIM]

I just don't understand. As long as you don't have it in an illegal configuration, what's the difference?
 

[DEACONLLB]

I bought a new prohunter frame from a dealer and when he called it in instead of long gun or pistol he said frame only and said to me under the change you can now do what you wont to with it .
 
Deaconllb

[darkgael]

Wasn't this issue settled back in 1992?  United States vs. Thompson-Center Arms Company.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Thompson-Center_Arms_Company
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-0164.ZO.html
http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/tc.html (Halbrook argued the case)

Pete

[Silvertp]

If Thompson Center wanted to do their customers a BIG Favor, they could provide us with a shortened and legalese-sanitized version of what this ruling means. 

Do we still need to research our various frames to see how they were originally sold to know which barrels / but stocks and grips  can be assembled without danger of "fast and furious" kicking down the doors to our homes???  Personally, Im still as confused as I always have been. 

Im with GrimJim....as long as you don't have your "parts" configured illegally what is the big deal?

Silvertp

[expeditionx]

Wasn't this issue settled back in 1992?  United States vs. Thompson-Center Arms Company.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Thompson-Center_Arms_Company
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-0164.ZO.html
http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/tc.html (Halbrook argued the case)

Pete

No that was about kits only. They stopped selling those kits a long time ago.

[expeditionx]

Do we still need to research our various frames to see how they were originally sold to know which barrels / but stocks and grips  can be assembled without danger of "fast and furious" kicking down the doors to our homes???   

The new ruling means you only need to worry about guns originally sold as rifles. If it left the factory as a long gun, it needs to stay as a long gun.
Original pistols are NOW off their radar when it comes to changing them back and forth. There seems to be a petition gathering signatures for congress to repeal the short barrel requirements of the NFA law. If this ever got passed, yeah I know good luck with that, you would never have to worry again about barrel length with any gun you own period. https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/%21/petition/lead-way-removing-arbitrarily-designated-short-barreled-rifles-and-shotguns-national-firearms-act/Zc2GTB4c

[tcencore3006]

The easiest solution is to buy two frames.  That's what I did.

[jem44357]

OK, new guy here.
 
Here is my dilemma. In 1999 I purchased an Encore frame through a local sports shop. It was purchased from SSK Industries. I purchased it with a custom SN, more on the significance of that later. I had to have a purchase permit and all. I have since purchased many items to make it a handgun and a shotgun. Well as time passed, I went through a divorce, reestablishment of my life and my daughter's mental illness. At some point I realized I had never registered it. I dug through many files and piles of paperwork and never did find anything related to the frame purchase. I contacted SSK and they supplied me with the invoices. I contacted the sport shop and got the response "that was a long time ago I don't have any information that old" not a direct quote but something like that. In November of 2011 I decided to stop by the local PD and see what I needed to do to get it registered. During the 5 hr. period trying to get this done The lady at the counter informed me because I had assembled it as a shotgun I would never be able to register it as a handgun, this is the same lady who told me the only way I could do this was to install both the pistol grip and the shoulder stock at the same time. Needless to say I gave up as I realized she seemed misinformed. She did have me speak to the sergeant in charge of the pistol training for the local officers and he was not much help either. I contacted the Michigan state police and was informed all I needed to do was get the purchase permit, fill it out, jump through the hoops and all would be good. I went back and explained this and was informed they were waiting for return calls from the ATF and she would call me back. She never called back and as I was preparing for the Michigan Deer season I dropped it. Now we are here. I find this thread with links confirming what I had researched and believe I should be good to go if the lady at the local PD was more informed.  I also found a form on the ATF web site which is... ATF form 1 (5320.1) titled Application to Make and Register a Firearm. http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf I was able to fill out everything on this form and it seems at a minimum this would work. Any advice on what I should do would be appreciated.
 
Thanking you in advance
Jim

[Incitatus]

OK, new guy here.
 
Here is my dilemma. In 1999 I purchased an Encore frame through a local sports shop. It was purchased from SSK Industries. I purchased it with a custom SN, more on the significance of that later. I had to have a purchase permit and all. I have since purchased many items to make it a handgun and a shotgun. Well as time passed, I went through a divorce, reestablishment of my life and my daughter's mental illness. At some point I realized I had never registered it. I dug through many files and piles of paperwork and never did find anything related to the frame purchase. I contacted SSK and they supplied me with the invoices. I contacted the sport shop and got the response "that was a long time ago I don't have any information that old" not a direct quote but something like that. In November of 2011 I decided to stop by the local PD and see what I needed to do to get it registered. During the 5 hr. period trying to get this done The lady at the counter informed me because I had assembled it as a shotgun I would never be able to register it as a handgun, this is the same lady who told me the only way I could do this was to install both the pistol grip and the shoulder stock at the same time. Needless to say I gave up as I realized she seemed misinformed. She did have me speak to the sergeant in charge of the pistol training for the local officers and he was not much help either. I contacted the Michigan state police and was informed all I needed to do was get the purchase permit, fill it out, jump through the hoops and all would be good. I went back and explained this and was informed they were waiting for return calls from the ATF and she would call me back. She never called back and as I was preparing for the Michigan Deer season I dropped it. Now we are here. I find this thread with links confirming what I had researched and believe I should be good to go if the lady at the local PD was more informed.  I also found a form on the ATF web site which is... ATF form 1 (5320.1) titled Application to Make and Register a Firearm. I was able to fill out everything on this form and it seems at a minimum this would work. Any advice on what I should do would be appreciated.
 
Thanking you in advance
Jim

"Sell" it to a friendly dealer.  He will enter it into his book as a pistol.  He will then "sell" it back to you as a pistol.  I am an ffl and would be happy to help you out but I am not in your state so you'd have to ship. 

That help?

[tcencore3006]

That is a great idea Incitatus!

[jem44357]

  Incitatus,
 
Thanks for the offer. I am open to all options to be able to finish my system but will pursue local options first. Particularly with the local PD so as to educate them so hopefully in the future no one else will have this issue. I entertained purchasing another frame but with about 2K already invested and enough parts and pieces to keep track of I just want it finished as planned and all above the board. In hind sight following through with the process in '99 would have saved me all of these headaches.
 
Are you familiar with the ATF form I referenced in my other post? http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf I think if I do it that way it would allow me to have any configuration I choose... handgun, shotgun, rifle and pistol also I think it would allow me to have a short barreled rifle and shotgun if I interpret the form correctly, even though I did not make the parts I am assembling them. I was able to fill out all the boxes with accurate info about me and my equipment. Another aspect of that form is I have to route it through the Chief of the local PD. I would love to be able to deliver it in person so I could discuss the incompetency/lack of knowledge of his staff... the individuals set forth to serve and protect me, NOT! I'll handle that myself. Also to the defense of the lady who seemed misinformed I see by the date of the recent rulings she may have been working off of out dated knowledge/info. Also I plan on heading to my sportsman’s club after the first of the year to retake the person protection classes to get my CPL... if I wait until than will that be of any help?
 
Thanks again
Jim

[tcencore3006]

Jim,
Welcome to GBO!  I was curious what state you are in?

[cowboyup453]

Jim,
Welcome to GBO!  I was curious what state you are in?

I would guess Michigan.
 

I contacted the Michigan state police

[tcencore3006]

Nice Cowboy!  I was going to blame a brain fart but farts don't usually affect my eyesight.  Not sure how I missed that one.  Thanks for pointing it out.  If you can't laugh at yourself you are just to dang serious.   

[tcencore3006]

Why would I read all that again when he could just answer my question?!?!

[jem44357]

OK guys,
 
Thanks for the welcomes. Sorry for not saying in the beginning I am indeed from Michigan. I was going to end with what state I was in but figured it was already in the body of the post. OK, back to the original topic. I think with the recent changes in the laws and or using the ATF form I linked I should be good to go... anyone from Michigan know? I will be following up on this soon I just have a lot of irons in the fire right know and wanted some input (sympathy  ) for my brain fart dilemma.
 
Jim
 

[Tommyt]

 The law has been Defined read my other post
 
Tommyt