Author Topic: Are powderburner shooters missing out?  (Read 1551 times)

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Offline JonnyReb

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Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« on: January 25, 2013, 03:32:43 PM »
  As I've felt the ammo pinch lately I've been shooting my powderguns none and my airguns a lot. As I shoot and look over my guns I can't help but think the majority of American shooters ignore airguns but should maybe reconsider them to augment their hobby. These new airguns marketed are not really cheap, it does take a signifigant investment sometimes but the pros of airgunning and its benefits can really make it worth it.

 A few reasons I like airguns better than powderburners.
1. Lots of airguns that run off compressed air are very powerful, these "pcp" guns can easily equal the ftlbs of a .22rf or even exceed it. New "bigbore" airguns can reach 1000ftlbs of energy and have taken American Bison. They can complete the tasks of a powdergun, but quietly.
2. Many of these guns are almost silent thanks to legal, factory installed surpressors. A .25 caliber shinsung infinity with a factory installed shroud sounds like its spitting as it launches 43gr pellets at 900fps. This is 80-90 ftlbs and can easily take an urban backyard coyote with a well placed headshot.
3. Modern pellet guns are every bit as accurate as a .22lr and out to 50+ yards many shoot hole in hole.
4. They are very cheap to shoot and its nothing to order up a thousand pellets for 20-50 bucks, depending on what your shooting. Its the old rimfire rates.
5. They ship them to your door, and drop em off. In most states completely legal and not considered a firearm, several liberal states excluded.

  All in all my spring and pre charged pneumatic air rifles have taken the place of my rimfires because I can quietly shoot in my yard anytime I want, can legally take anything from squirrel to deer with airguns, depending on which one i use. They are now made in calibers ranging from .177 to .58 and larger. You can make your own ammo, and you can charge the guns with either a scuba tank or a special bicycle type pump that creates the required 3000psi. You are quite self sufficient with these guns.

  With all the uproar about firearms lately and the scarcity of ammo, airguns are making a lot of sense and for those interested, check out the new modern airguns in the marketplace, its really surprising what they have to offer.. j
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Offline bulletstuffer

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Re: Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2013, 03:46:11 PM »
Pheasants forever sent me a $10 gift card for Gander.  I bought a $10 pack of those fancy gold plated pellets.  The crows fell to the regular pellets ;)   Can't wait to see how those things work compared to the other pellets ;D 


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Offline JonnyReb

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Re: Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2013, 03:59:45 PM »
 I hear ya bro ;D those gamo pellets are awful fast but I can't hit anything with em :-\ only tried them in one or two guns though. Heard they go through alotta cans.   :o
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2013, 05:14:46 PM »
who's shot the "ballistic-tip" looking
pellets? are they worth the extra expense?
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Offline JPShelton

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Re: Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2013, 05:37:58 PM »
This powderburner isn't missing out.  My first airgun was a .20 Beeman R-1, which I no longer have and really don't miss, having replaced with the lighter, more compact .20 Beeman R-9.
I can shoot rimfire cheaper than my R-9, comparing the cost of 500 Winchester Wildcats, which both my Ruger 10/22 and 22/45 shoot very well, to the same number of .20 Beeman FTS pellets, cost of having pellets shipped to me, and replacing mainsprings and piston seals every couple or three years.  My R-9 is tuned, not particulalry twangy or hold sensitive for what it is, but it is far from silent on discharge.  As far as accuracy goes, on a windless day (rare where I shoot), my R-9 will group a little tighter than my 10/22 will at 50 yards.
I don't have a backyard to shoot in, and even if I did, I'd get popped for unlawful discharge inside city limits in the town I live in if I shot my R-9 within them.  But the upside is that I live fifteen minutes away from a public hunting area with a very nice shooting range that I use three days a week.
I still shoot that R-9 A LOT.  Not because it is the cheapest thing I have to shoot, because it isn't.  Not because it's quiet, because it isn't compared to shooting .22 shorts out of my son's bolt action .22.  I shoot it alot because it forces a disciplined technique -consistant hold and follow-through and so on. If I'm on top of my game and doing all of the little things right, the rifle rewards me with nice little clusters in the X ring of a target.  If I'm not on top of my game, that rifle isn't shy about pointing that out, either.   If I can shoot that R-9 well, shooting my nearly equally hold sensitive Ruger No. 1 well falls under the heading of "no problem."
I also like it simply because I consider it an heirloom quality piece of equipment, and I enjoy using nice, well-made things.  And I guess I haven't gotten over the fascination of a spring-piston power source driving a projectile fast enough to reach a 50 yard target, kill it very dead right now if it is a rabbit or squirrel, while being accurate enough to hit what I am aiming at. 
Lastly, I like shooting it a lot because I like to use it squirrel hunting.  I shoot squrriels on a little 500 acre public hunting ground on the highest mountain -the only one, actually- in the county, and it is surrounded by private property.  My R-9 has a maximum range under 500 yards, but an effective range on small game out to 50 or a tick over.  I've got the killing power I need, but nothin' I don't under the circumstances that I use it while hunting.  It's certainly safer than a .22 would be under the same conditions, and it is quieter than my shotgun.
That is really the biggest advantage to me -the useful effective small game taking range, coupled with limited maximum range.  This lets me hunt and take game safely and discretely, right up to the suburban / wilderness interface, opening up more small game hunting opportunities in an increasingly crowded world.
JP

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2013, 05:51:44 PM »
Pheasants forever sent me a $10 gift card for Gander.  I bought a $10 pack of those fancy gold plated pellets.  The crows fell to the regular pellets ;)   Can't wait to see how those things work compared to the other pellets ;D 


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They penetrate a whole lot better.
You will be suprised at what they do.

Offline JonnyReb

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Re: Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2013, 04:21:04 AM »
  Nice write up JP, I had several of those german beeman imports and they were nice guns. I should have specified that I was really targeting the "pcp" or pre charged pneumatic airgun, which is gaining popularity, but is still unknown to many rifleman and shooters. The spring powered airguns like the R9 are old technology and make much less power, although of course they are, as you noted, a fine, beautiful rifle, plenty for small game.

  Not many folks may know that crosman entered the pcp market a few years ago with 3 nice hunting airguns. The Discovery is a base model that throws pellets at apprx. 900-1000fps in .177 or .22 calibers.

  The Marauder is a clip fed manual indexed 8-10 shot depending on caliber which includes .25. This rifle is also internally silenced and throws pellets at up to 45ftlbs of energy, some serious power.

  The Rogue is a quieted .357 that makes 250ftlbs. It is computer operated and you can dial power up or down at will. Its a very advanced airrifle.

Here's a very cool vid of the Rogue

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CEIQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhog-blog.com%2Fjim-shockey-shooting-hogs-with-an-air-rifle-benjamin-rogue-357%2F&ei=3_MDUZyGBYv68QTExoHIDw&usg=AFQjCNHY5ZX3DlNFOLpvhSoQ6Fy4SPNemQ
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Offline Victor3

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Re: Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2013, 01:41:30 AM »
 I've got multiple airguns that I love but my rimfires are used much more often. The advantages of a rimfire outweigh those of an airgun for ~80% of the shooting I do.


 For that other 20% though, nothing but an airgun will do the job for me.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2013, 02:00:46 AM »
The Benjamin Rogue in .357 is very impressive but the price is nuts.
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Offline Victor3

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Re: Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2013, 02:10:08 AM »
It's a lot less impressive after reading posts from the airgun forums on problems guys are having with them.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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Offline Swampman

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Re: Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2013, 02:13:20 AM »
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline JonnyReb

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Re: Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2013, 04:02:00 AM »
 Yeah I agree the rogue is too troublesome and expensive, but it sure is impressive. It was the first legally "muffled" bigbore I believe.Those quackenbushes are real hard to get, but I've heard they're incredible rifles. If I'm not mistaken, they're even more expensive than the rogue. Thanks for that link..Jack haley is building lesser expensive bigbores at www.southernairgunconversion.com ,I've heard mostly great stuff about his guns.

  For a lot of guys, the korean bigbores and pcp's are the best bargain for the money. Eujin, shinsung, sam yang and career were different pcp and bigbore manufacturers that have operated out of South Korea for quite a long time. They have from .177 to .50 caliber guns. Pyramyd air is an online company that sells some of their products here in the U.S. 

 I've tried many of their guns and liked every one. They make AG's that are much more powerful than the norm, most of their guns fall somewhere between a .22 short and a .22lr hyper velocity in power. This Eugin .22 carbine pictured below is a current favorite. Its a 6 shot lever action repeater that is very accurate with 28gr. Korean pellets and makesa solid 55ftlbs of energy.

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z252/xxjonnyrebxx/20130108_153346_zps425a2791.jpg
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Offline Victor3

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Re: Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2013, 11:49:50 PM »
What about these?
 
http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/308_exile.html


They're supposedly very good. One I examined about 10 years ago wasn't great as far as fit & finish goes but looked very practical and solid (apart from a cheesy trigger guard). I was planning on adding my name to his backlog list back then but the wait was too long.


Gary Barnes makes some beautiful rifles (works of art, really) but last I heard he's not taking orders anymore. I spoke with him some years back about getting one of his most simple designs but even that was out of my price range at the time and the wait was two years...


http://www.glbarnes.com/index10.html


 
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Offline tuck2

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Re: Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2013, 11:19:50 PM »
I have earlry model Beeman R-1 17 Cal rifle that Iv used to get rid of unwonted critters and get cottentail rabbits.  Its as heavy as my elk rifles which is ok with me.  My other spring  powered rifle is a Beeman GS 1000 22 Cal which is not as accurate as the R-1 rifle. The air rifles I shoot the most are Benjamin 22 Cal, Sheridan 20 Cal, Benjamin Sheridan 20 Cal, and Crosman 20 Cal  pump up air rifles . I have a portable benchrest in my den with the pellet trap  10 meters away in a storage room.  I  enjoy shooting  them all winter long. I m not going to get  air rifles that uses high  pressure air tanks.  But come spring I ll use rimfire and center fire  17, 20 and 22 Cal varmint rifles to shoot prairie dogs. 

Offline darkgael

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Re: Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2013, 02:02:25 AM »
I am a long time airgun shooter. Used to do a lot of match shooting with an FWB CO2 pistol. A few years ago, I picked up one of the big bore Korean PCP rifles.....I agree that they are the best buy for the buck.......but setting up one is still a considerable chunk of change.
The guns run around $600... Add a scope.....need a three stage high pressure pump $200 (gotta pump to 3000 psi), need a SCUBA tank, preferably at 4500 psi ....another $150 to $700, depending on the tank pressure and size.
Once you are setup, though, you are pretty much independent of any one - except for the occasional trip to a Dive shop to have the tank refilled. You can use the hand pump....but it is a LOT of work.
I cast my own slugs - same slugs that I use in my 1911 or I cast lead round balls - the 200 grain  give me ten shots at 600 + fps. The 173grain round balls get to 700+.
Targets and plinking only as it is illegal to hunt anything here in PA with an airgun.
Quackenbush Airguns are the top shelf. He only makes a limited number per year. Posts a list in the Spring when he opens for new guns. You put your name on the list and he makes you a gun. Getting on the list is the challenge. It fills up fast and then it is another year to wait.
http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/status__page.htm

Offline JonnyReb

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Re: Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2013, 03:29:41 PM »
 That's cool DG, you must have a 909? If so, I bought a 909 from a guy in PA a few years ago that used his during muzzleloader season by clamping his sliding breech closed and frontloading. Not saying by any means that this was legal but he seemed to think it was.

  Your sure dead on about the handpump. I filled my dragonslayer with the handpump the other day and was too wore out to shoot for awhile. I like to think of it as an emergency source of air rather than a primary. I just don't want to be in THAT good a shape ;)  appreciate you posting on this thread.  J
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Offline theratdog

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Re: Are powderburner shooters missing out?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2013, 08:56:28 PM »
i shoot both looked around lately no 22lr's im going to set up a pellet gun range in the basement so i can shoot in the winter.just ordered a 22cal crossman  nitro piston yesterday now the wait . i just really like to shoot an fix up old guns my main hobby. :)