Author Topic: Breech Plug Thought (Read 1110 times)

sabotloader · « **on:** February 05, 2004, 04:17:17 PM »

I am not sure who should get the credit, but someone on this board or maybe another suggested using a 12 gauge bronze brush and a slow turning drill to clean the threads on the inside of the breech. He said the plastic brush that I used probably wasn't really doing the job. I have a new Austin & Halleck the breech plug does not turn easily in fact it seems ruff. I stole his idea for two reason, the obvious to clean the treads and my second thought - it might polish the threads and the inside also. To make the long story short I also polished the breech plug threads with my dremel tool. Between the two treatments the plug now turns in like I think it should. The ruff spots that would add to the pick up of powder residue are now gone and a more complete and smooth seal should be attained. I guess I'll find out this weekend...

Triple Se7en · « **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2004, 12:20:09 AM »

Sabotloader
You do not need anything "heavy-duty" to clean the threads of the breechplug. No fouling should exist... even after 20 shots.

The only time fouling gets in the thread lines is if you remove the breechplug b/4 cleaning your bore after a day at the range.

I never remove my breechplug until my bore is 90% clean. Then I attach a clean brush to the ramrod & reverse the bore entry by coming in the rear.

Any "recommended" spent breechplug/anti-seize grease is not hard to clean/remove. Use a delicate brush on those threads... not the coarse bronze brush.

If you cover every thread, Gorilla Grease works great as an anti-seize. The secret is to bring your breechplug wrench to the range. After 6-7 shots using 100 grains, crack the hardened seal (777 crud ring) by loosening the plug (1) revolutionary turn -- then snug it back up. It should not seize after that -- even after another 10 shots.

Just to be safe, when you fired your "last" bullet that day, loosen the breechplug while the barrel is still hot... b/4 you pack the rifle in a carring case.
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I applied the same identical reply to this question over at CVA.com also.

big6x6 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 06, 2004, 12:53:25 AM »

My Austin Halleck breech plug was as you described. It was also unique in that the more I tried to back it out, the harder it was to remove. I changed the lube to Gorilla Grease and I had no more problems. Just a FYI.

Wolfhound · « **Reply #3 on:** February 06, 2004, 02:24:06 AM »

Quote from: Triple Se7en

The only time fouling gets in the thread lines is if you remove the breechplug b/4 cleaning your bore after a day at the range.

That's not been my experience.There's fouling pushed into the threads when firing. One look at a removed breach plug will tell you that. It's not much but it's there. Every single inline here and that I've shot has had it. Now by removing the plug and then cleaning the bore you will push extra fouling into them, but as there is already some there it's really a non issue. Just use a 12 or 20 gauge bronze bore brush to clean it out. It's really no big deal. If it bothers you a single solvent patch before you remove the plug will get most of the fouling out.

Triple Se7en · « **Reply #4 on:** February 06, 2004, 03:26:22 AM »

Quote

"There's fouling pushed into the threads when firing. One look at a removed breach plug will tell you that. It's not much but it's there."

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What is the percentage of thread rows that you are experiencing actual fouling? I presume you are discussing your Knight rifles. My T/C experience is "no fouling anywhere"... the same with my former Tracker 209.

Maybe it happens by gun or plug design.... maybe it happens by powder choice, grains & hotness.... maybe it happens by our grease choices... who knows?

sabotloader · « **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2004, 03:54:50 AM »

Big6x6, that is exactly what I am talking about. In fact after shooting about 20 rounds, it would let me screw it in a little bit but the more I backed it out the tougher it got. Another thing - Cleaned up and ready to re-assemble I could not even screw the plug in without the wrench. As you were screwing it in you would feel the threads clash almost like they were cross-threading - which after taking it out sveral times and making sure it wasn't cross-threading I finally accepted what I got. All the time I am putting it in, I'm thinking man this is course how will it really seal - until it fills with T7 crude then it will be really sealed. Well now after polishing the internal threads and the plug threads it turns in with my fingers. You could actually see bits of metal on the the threads of the plug under a stereoscope. Well these are all gone now and the threads are smooth.

With my Remington I have never had any breech problems even after shooting 30-40 rounds at a sitting - so the A&H really caught me off guard that first sighting in session.

Greased the whole thing and I am waiting for Saturday to try it all out.

Do you have any ballistic numbers for a 300 grain 45 cal. bullet (Saboted) 100 grains of T7 out of a Austin & Halleck. The other bullet I was looking at was a 260gr 45 cal. Nosler Partician. I can not believe how well the Noslers group. I know they are built for hunting - but I did not think they would be considered anything close to a target round.

Thanks for the help and all the information you put on this forum...

Triple Se7en · « **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2004, 05:15:39 AM »

Quote

"after shooting about 20 rounds, it would let me screw it in a little bit but the more I backed it out the tougher it got. Another thing - Cleaned up and ready to re-assemble I could not even screw the plug in without the wrench. As you were screwing it in you would feel the threads clash almost like they were cross-threading - which after taking it out sveral times and making sure it wasn't cross-threading I finally accepted what I got. All the time I am putting it in, I'm thinking man this is course how will it really seal - until it fills with T7 crude then it will be really sealed. Well now after polishing the internal threads and the plug threads it turns in with my fingers. You could actually see bits of metal on the the threads of the plug under a stereoscope. Well these are all gone now and the threads are smooth. "

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Sabotloader

What makes you think your seizure is caused by fouling & not a breakdown of grease and/or heat? I'm no expert on this matter, but to cite an example, why do screw-in choke tubes on shotguns seize when very little smokeless fouling exists?

Also! What makes you think those "bits of metal" cause plug seizures? Every manufacturer uses a slightly different grade/strength of steel. Although some situations exist where plugs are not completely sealed (like they should be).... I have yet to recover a plug from a multi-fired inline that seizes due to fouling from substitute powders/primers when using recommended grains.

I'm sure willing to hear other ideas. I want to learn the correct answer... if there is an actual correct answer.

Wolfhound · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2004, 05:22:55 AM »

Quote from: Triple Se7en

What is the percentage of thread rows that you are experiencing actual fouling? I presume you are discussing your Knight rifles. My T/C experience is "no fouling anywhere"... the same with my former Tracker 209.

About 90% in my Extreme, 75/80% in my TK-2000, 50% in the Wolverine. You also have to remember that the more you replace and remove a breech plug the fit will get looser. I've got a replacement plug for the Wolverine and TK-2000 and 1 on the way for the Extreme. My old CVA would have 100% of the threads fouled just for comparison. Hopefully in a few months (or whenever they become available) I'll see how one of those thumbhole Omegas does as well.

Quote from: Triple Se7en

Maybe it happens by gun or plug design.... maybe it happens by powder choice, grains & hotness.... maybe it happens by our grease choices... who knows?

Who knows? I'd bet all those factors play a part though.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2004, 05:24:25 AM »

Quote

What makes you think your seizure is caused by fouling & not a breakdown of grease and/or heat? I'm no expert on this matter, but to cite an example, why do screw-in choke tubes on shotguns seize when very little smokeless fouling exists?

Very little heat time is actually involved, as exposure is 1/700th of a second or so-- and they sure aren't semi-autos.

Few screw chokes on shotguns seize up-- the ones that do generally are never properly lubed in the first place. Heat is not the issue, it is peening from the shot column as it passes through the constriction that can gall / overtighten threads if not lubed.

sabotloader · « **Reply #9 on:** February 06, 2004, 07:28:18 AM »

Thank you Randy - I really never felt it was heat causing the problem - in fact heat alleviates the problem. I honestly believe it is powder residue looking for any escape it can find - the threads of the breech plug do offer such a route for the infamous "Crude Ring." Certainly anti sieze products help alleviate some of this, but I think if you talked to a machinist he would tell you if the parts were machined, polished, and made to make a perfect sealed match the siezing problem would be non-existant. I guess I can compare that to some of the highly machined and polished parts I have worked with before in stress situations.

I also concur with your evaluation of shotgun chokes and would add smokeless powder does not mean CLEAN - maybe cleaner but certainly not clean if it was I wouldn't have to clean my trap guns... The most common reason for siezed chokes that I have encountered is neglect and RUST...

I really believe that my whole system is going to function better because it is smoother and will help provide a tighter seal vs blowback.. But I will find out Saturday - unless the predicted 4-6 inches of snow shows up...