Sidekick - How short?

[YRUpunting?]

I'm thinking about cutting down the barrel on Sidekick.  How short can I go?  I've been using the 350 gr. FPB bullets.  As far as accuracy goes, I'm looking for minute of deer at a max range of 125 yards.

[Busta]

I'm thinking about cutting down the barrel on Sidekick.  How short can I go?  I've been using the 350 gr. FPB bullets.  As far as accuracy goes, I'm looking for minute of deer at a max range of 125 yards.

You might want to check with your local government, but the Sidekick is not considered a "FIREARM". It is classified under "ANTIQUE", so there should be no length limit, however it does look just like a single shot shotgun, so it would probably draw a lot of attention.
 
As far as other rifles, I believe 16-1/2" is the shortest legal length.
 
Check twice, cut once!

[PHATINJUN]

I agree with what Busta says . Though I would not be cutting it down to much as for the most part unless you already have it shooting very tight groups @ .I think you are probly @min of deer already at 125yrds and they may just go down with shortening the bbl. Were the Sidekicks 24"? Kurt

[bikerbeans]

I think the answer to this question is going to be different in almost every state.  Take Ohio for instance, there is a hunting regulation that requires a mininum barrel length of 18" for a longgun to be legal to hunt game.  So I can legally shorten a .223 to 16.1" barrel but I can't hunt with it in Ohio and I also cannot carry it in plain sight in a gun rack, like I can a 18" or longer long gun. 
 
BB

[tacklebury]

Blackpowder firearms have no minimum.  You can make a mortar for BP only legally or even a cannon.  You can also make black powder pistols for personal use and on your own premesis with no legal issues.  If you choose to leave your property with it, it must have a serial number and makers mark permanantly marked on the firearm.  Makers mark can be whatever you choose for your mark and the serial number can be just a stamped 1 or 00001 or whatever floats your boat.  It simply has to be identifiable by that mark.  If you make rifles, they can leave your premesis without markings.  The only other stipulation is that you cannot sell them for profit.  This is all per ATF and consistent with Michigan State law.  You may want to double check your local laws where you live to make sure this isn't different.

[YRUpunting?]

Well... wording fail on my part!  What I was trying to ask is given the 1:28 twist how much can I shorten the barrel (it's 26") without hurting accuracy?

[bikerbeans]

YRU,
 
I have used BH209, pyrodex and 777 with a 23" rossi 50 cal MZ with good velocity and acceptable  hunting accuracy out to +125 yards.  I was shooting 300 grain Barnes Expander sabots.  I would think you would be okay with a barrel in the 20" to 22".
 
BB

[quickdtoo]

I use to have three Cabelas Sporter Hawkens with 21" barrels, they worked great with conicals and sabots shooting Goex or T7, short and very handy in the woods. 

Tim

[Busta]

Well... wording fail on my part!  What I was trying to ask is given the 1:28 twist how much can I shorten the barrel (it's 26") without hurting accuracy?

Oh,,,in that case, 20" should not hurt at all out to 125 yards, as long as you get a good square muzzle and a good crown. You will lose a little velocity, but there is no deer that can live on the difference.
 
I have a 14-1/2" 1:28 .50 cal tip-up pistol from another company that will absolutely drive tacks at 50 yards. My pistol didn't like the 350 FPB, but my Huntsman/Sidekicks have shot some of my best groups with them.
 
Good luck with your project.

[bikerbeans]

YRU,
 
Maybe this helps a little but it is 45 cal smokeless MZ data. I have (2) Handi 45-70s that I converted to MZs, one has 22" barrel and the other has a 18.5" barrel, i cut it down, not a Talo Trapper.  Accuracy is equivalent on the two guns, about 1.5 MOA, at least when I don't get in the way of the gun too much.    
 
18.5" MZ - 279 grain Sabot, 52 grains I3031 = 1,623 FPS
 
22"   MZ - 279 grain sabot, 52 grains I3031 = 1,796 FPS
 
I would think with the larger bore size MZ the velocity difference by trimming 3.5" off the barrel would be less than this. 
 
BB

[trotterlg]

tacklebury :  Don't know where you got your info but is it B.S. unless it is a state law.  Fed law is you can build anything you are legal to own, even CF, and it is also bs that you have to put a SN on it.  Larry

[tacklebury]

Correct Larry, much of it was Michigan State law as I stated.    It's not BS that pistols must have the Number per ATF either once it leaves your premesis:

Identification of Firearms
The GCA at 18 U.S.C. 923(i) provides, in part, that licensed manufacturers and importers must “identify” each firearm manufactured or imported by a serial number in the manner prescribed by regulation.  Federal regulations at 27 CFR 478.92(a)(1) further require importers and manufacturers to identify each firearm by engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing the individual serial number and certain additional information - the model (if designated), caliber/gauge, manufacturer’s name, and place of origin on the frame, receiver, or barrel - at a minimum depth.  Section 478.92(a)(2) specifies that a “firearm frame or receiver that is not a component part of a complete weapon at the time it is sold, shipped, or otherwise disposed of … must be identified as required by this section.”

Link to the full statement:  http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2010-10.htm
 
Anyone involved in making firearms including for personal use falls under this.  Once the weapon leaves their personal property or is transferred to another person or sold. 

[trotterlg]

Sorry dude, wrong again.  Larry

[lester]

I have a 26" Huntsman that a smith cut down to 20-5/8" for me.  It was way too front heavy and kind of unwieldy for the kind of hunting I do.  It's now a sweet little carbine that's perfect for me.  As for accuracy it's hard to say.  Before the mod I used Pyrodex then 777, after the mod I switched to BH209.  First time I ever got cloverleafs with this gun so I'm not complaining!
 
Lester

[Slackdaddy]

I have one I cut down to 18", and cut 1" off the stock,, it groups 1-2" at 100yds, but thats me.
did some reading before I cut, found an write up a fella did, he kept cutting an 1" off and crono'd it, no drop off in vel till he was down near 15".

[YRUpunting?]

Slack,


That's what I had in mind, thanks for the picture.  How did you modify the ram rod?

[Slackdaddy]

Gunsmith dovetailed and mounted rod holder, I removed the wood portion of the rod, cut the rod down and re-inserted the wood.
 
Nick