Author Topic: Looking for info on my new cannon. (Read 1554 times)

Kiwi_MT · « **on:** July 27, 2012, 02:59:01 PM »

Hello everyone. I'm new here as I just purchased my first cannon and found this forum a few days ago. I'm looking for any information anybody may have on my new cannon (facts, recommended loads for blanks and projectiles, estimated value etc...) One thing I would like to know is where can I get a ramrod to "match" this cannon. It looks like there is a place on the carriage for "matching tools", but they weren't with the cannon. I would love to get these to complete the package. I'm a little afraid that I overpaid for this piece. I found it on an auction in the first minute that I started looking to buy and there was only five minutes left on the auction. I basically panicked and just bought it. Hopefully, it wasn't a mistake...

Thank you in advance for any information or comments.
Kiwi

GGaskill · « **Reply #1 on:** July 27, 2012, 05:40:14 PM »

You will have to give us more info such as bore diameter, breech diameter, length, trunnnion diameter, etc., for us to be able to give accurate information. I gather it is a breech loader so you will have to be thorough when cleaning that part to prevent corrosion.

BoomLover · « **Reply #2 on:** July 27, 2012, 08:27:40 PM »

A friend of mine has one almost identical to yours, also made in Spain...very nice looking gun and carriage....BoomLover

Kiwi_MT · « **Reply #3 on:** July 27, 2012, 11:40:22 PM »

Quote

You will have to give us more info such as bore diameter, breech diameter, length, trunnnion diameter, etc., for us to be able to give accurate information. I gather it is a breech loader so you will have to be thorough when cleaning that part to prevent corrosion.

I should have mentioned this in the original post, but I don't have the cannon in my hands yet. It is at a USPS sorting facility in MN so I won't be seeing it until Monday. I'm so excited that I would drive the five hours to pick it up in MN right now if they'd let me. The last owner used this cannon for a display piece and didn't seem to know too many details about it. There was some specs listed(see below), but when questioned about one measurement, he said he didn't know that much. I figured I'd wait to see the cannon to verify all the measurements to ensure they are correct. Sorry if I "jumped the gun" here, but I just wanted to get it out there to see if anyone would just know exactly what it is and have some information. Like I said, I'm super exited right now and can't get enough of anything cannon related.
Here are the specs:

Overall length: 28 1/4"
Overall weight: 16 lbs 7.8 oz
Overall width: 15"
Barrel Length: 15"
Barrel Weight: 7lbs 15.2 oz
Barrel OD at Breech: 1 7/8"
Bore: 11/16" (not sure what caliber this is)
Trunions: 7/8" diameter x 5/8" deep
Wheel diameter: 11 1/2"[/size]

[/list]

Cannoneer · « **Reply #4 on:** July 27, 2012, 11:56:00 PM »

Welcome to the board, Kiwi_MT. I've also got one of those Jukar, Spanish made Napoleons. They were originally sold in the states by CVA, and mine is marked .69 caliber, but it can easily accept .69 caliber unpatched ball. I load it with Fg to FFFg, and looking for accuracy I've loaded it with anywhere from 80 grains on down to light loads; for the last shoot we had I used 65 grains of FFFg with a patched .678 ball. As for worth, well, it's worth what someone's willing to pay for it. You tell me what you payed for it, and I'll tell you if I think you've been had.

As for the rammer, mop and other tools, you're going to have to make them, or have someone make them (use wooden dowel rods).

Kiwi_MT · « **Reply #5 on:** July 28, 2012, 12:07:33 AM »

Thanks for the info Cannoneer. Much appreciated. You remind me of one important question I had. You state you use Fg to FFFg. So far, I have not been able to find any actual black powder in my area. The only thing I can find is Pyrodex. Is this ok to use, and if so, would the amount be the same?

Cannoneer · « **Reply #6 on:** July 28, 2012, 05:05:37 AM »

Yes, you can use Pyrodex, and the measure would be the same. I just noticed that you asked about recommended blank loads in the opener. I said 80 grains for ball, so double it to 160 for a salute. Pyrodex isn't going to give you as loud a bang as real black powder will in blank loads.

intoodeep · « **Reply #7 on:** July 28, 2012, 02:25:44 PM »

Kiwi_MT,

You can find a manual that should work for that model of yours at:

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/muzzleloader-manuals.php

Just click on the "Cannon Manual" to download the .pdf.

Hope this helps.

Doc Brown. · « **Reply #8 on:** July 28, 2012, 03:30:42 PM »

Hi Kiwi. You can use pyrodex but it will corrode your barrel. Black powder is the way to go.

As for if you got a good deal or not. I think if you wanted to get someone to make that for you it would cost around 800 to 1500 dollars. Looks like you probably got a good fleabay deal.

I have never seen an elevator screw in this position before. Is this normal?

I know a guy on here named Zulu makes tools. If you want the best tools I have ever seen check him out. Im not sure he still does tools and im not sure if he does small tool sets like you would need.

Kiwi_MT · « **Reply #9 on:** July 29, 2012, 04:22:53 AM »

Thanks everyone for the tips and info. I actually got a pleasant surprise and it showed up yesterday. USPS tracking is obviously not always accurate. It is one neat little cannon. A few people stopped to check it out, and one of my friends actually volunteered to do the research and attempt to build the tools for it. If that plan falls through, I will definately look into this Zulu fella you mentioned. As for the position of the elevation screw, I guess I don't know how it is supposed to be positioned. Are you just talking about the height?
-Kiwi-

flagman1776 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 29, 2012, 04:35:48 AM »

Don't know what you paid but it's a nice larger piece than most. It's looks like the breach unscrews as a clean out which would seldom be done. The touch hole looks like it may have something in it to render it temporarily unuseable, perhaps to pass ebays rules. I know if I sold one, I would plug it with something soft.
Nice find

Kiwi_MT · « **Reply #11 on:** July 29, 2012, 04:44:56 AM »

Quote

Don't know what you paid but it's a nice larger piece than most. It's looks like the breach unscrews as a clean out which would seldom be done. The touch hole looks like it may have something in it to render it temporarily unuseable, perhaps to pass ebays rules. I know if I sold one, I would plug it with something soft.
Nice find

You would be correct about the touch hole being plugged. It was mentioned it the auction and also stated it would be possible to remove it. I also believe this was an attempt to keep the auction open, which succeeded. When I recieved the cannon yesterday, thats one of the first things I checked. He actually removed it before shipping it out. Its a nice, clean little cannon. I love it.
-Kiwi-

Cannoneer · « **Reply #12 on:** July 29, 2012, 12:08:26 PM »

Quote from: dockholidaiy on July 28, 2012, 03:30:42 PM

I have never seen an elevator screw in this position before. Is this normal?

For some reason that I don't understand, they designed the top of the elevation screw to support the cascabel knob, instead of having the screw located under the breech of the barrel the way it was on the real gun; so the "handles" have to be bent down in order to clear the outer breech face when the screw is rotated.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=261737.0;attach=76789;image

Double D · « **Reply #13 on:** July 30, 2012, 05:34:34 AM »

Quote from: Cannoneer on July 29, 2012, 12:08:26 PM

Quote from: dockholidaiy on July 28, 2012, 03:30:42 PM
I have never seen an elevator screw in this position before. Is this normal?

For some reason that I don't understand, they designed the top of the elevation screw to support the cascabel knob, instead of having the screw located under the breech of the barrel the way it was on the real gun; so the "handles" have to be bent down in order to clear the outer breech face when the screw is rotated.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=261737.0;attach=76789;image

Simple enough I'll bet, the carriage was for a different barrel.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #14 on:** July 30, 2012, 06:25:13 PM »

The barrel and carriage were manufactured by the same company, and sold as a kit.

Microboomer · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2012, 05:10:36 AM »

Hi Kiwi,
For blank loads in particular, you'll be happier if you can find real black powder. I started searching locally a couple of years ago. I first went to 5 locally owned gun shops and got the same story at each place - for stores, the ATF requires black powder to be stored in a magazine, and there is some additional odious paperwork involved, and they didn't want to mess with it.
No one will have it out in the open - you have to ask.
Digging through old posts on this board I found several people who had found Goex black powder at Bass Pro Shops and maybe some other sporting megastore (Gander Mt.?). I finally hit pay dirt at a nearby Bass Pro Shop. You can buy black powder at several online stores, but hazmat shipping makes it pricy, although it becomes reasonable if you order 5 lbs or so.
andy

Double D · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2012, 06:04:20 AM »

Go to the Cannon link list and find the black powder suppliers. Most will ship you small lots. Two favoriters is www.Powderinc.com and Graf and Sons.

At first blink Powder inc. prices look high. But look again, that price includes shipping and hazmat fee.

carmy53 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2012, 10:12:53 AM »

I used to have a cannon just like yours except mine was a muzzle loader not a breech loader. The elevator screw was the same as yours.

intoodeep · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2012, 03:22:10 PM »

I have a .69 Traditions and it has the same elevating screw location. It's always been a peeve of mine how they did that. $:-\$

Kiwi_MT · « **Reply #19 on:** August 03, 2012, 11:25:59 AM »

Thanks for the tips on finding some actual black powder. I did buy some pyrodex for now, but would like to see the difference. I've been out of town, but am hoping to fire this thing a few times this weekend. As far as the elevation screw goes, I am also curious why they placed it where they did on these kits. I'm glad someone mentioned it or I'm not sure if I ever would have realized it's not technically "correct". Might be one of those questions that never gets answered. Oh well. I won't let it bother me anyhow. I still think it looks fantastic and will make a boom, which I never get enough of.

onegreatshot · « **Reply #20 on:** August 05, 2012, 05:33:16 AM »

Well I can add my 2 cents on this cannon. I also own one. Mine is a muzzle loader and what I miked out to be .70cal. My elevator adjustment screw is also on the crucible, must be standard. My problem is when to postman delivered the cannon via priority mail it was not package correctly and it a long walk to my yard. The wheels were in a sad state of being very loose on all the spokes. Now that I have companies name on address I will see about getting new wheels. (if they make them still.)

Cannoneer · « **Reply #21 on:** August 05, 2012, 07:03:13 AM »

Kiwi_MT's Napoleon III has a threaded breech plug just like mine, but these older CVA/Jukar models were always intended to be muzzleloaders.

As far as I know "Traditions Peformance Firearms" is still selling a slightly different version of the Napoleon III model.

Parts Sheet
http://www.frankonia.de/images/multimedia/pdf/98677.pdf

Page 14
http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/pdf/Traditions_Catalog.pdf