how good are you

[SHOOTALL]

Bullseye teaches shooting discipline as was mentioned , My point was with regard to dealing with shooting and pressure and seeing how one reacts to it .

You build a house from its foundation, bullseye provides that foundation for shooting.

Of coarse there is more, bullseye is merely what I have found to do it best.

CW

I find piratical shooting more useful when looking to train for self defense. But one should have the basics down first. I have taken personal defense classes where the shooter was hit, thrown on the ground etc. while shooting live ammo also simunitions was used in shooter on shooter exercises . These all are realistic in an attack on ones person . Night or low or no light shooting is good . All build confidence and show what ones reaction would be if attacked . The above type classes/training is very dangerous and should be given in a controled enviroment by trained instructors . BUT it is very good training . How controled is it ? the training is so realistic at some schools that when taking the class you must list all weapons and their location on your person. This so instructors can control you and the weapons in the event it get to realistic and you forget its training . With all due respect this type training goes well beyond Bullseye shooting when it comes to self defense .

[3 feathers]

7" at 7 yards will do in any boogie man out there. That is far enough for defensive shooting. 99% of all self defense shooting will be in this range of closer.

[Mikey]

I would suggest you bench the pistol first, with good quality ammo, to get a handle on how she groups out to 15 yd first, then 25 yd. 
If the S&W M&P is a dao pistol it may be a tad tough to group well if you are not familiar with or comfortable with the trigger system but I would test it out first and if your 'unsupported' groups don't match the capability of the pistol when it is 'benched' then you just need to practice a bunch and improve your 'hit' capability. 

[m-g Willy]

Try another gun.
Or have someone that is a known good pistol shot, shoot your gun.
7" at 7yds sounds like you are shooting from the hip!
A fairly good shot with a good (not great) gun should be able to shoot groups 4-5" at 25 yards.

[demented]

 Y'all are actually talking about HITTING something with a handgun?  Me, always figgered a handguns purpose in life was to lay down enough fire to keep the bad guys off me until my feet have time to do their intended job, that job being getting me the heck out of there!

[Richard P]

Nelson, you are a fortunate soul --- being pals with Mr Golden.  I believe it was around 1980/81 or so that for some reason--- maybe the Federal Prison--  Mr Golden was sent to the Atlanta area.  He would come out to the DeKalb County firing range and shoot IHMSA with several of us.  He was always gracious. I've never forgotten who he is.  Richard

[demented]

 Most of my shooting is 8" steel plates.  At seven  yards with them spaced one foot apart I can usually tale them down in under five seconds coming from a CC holster, a bit more time when they're set up at fifteen yards.   I'd like to shoot faster but I've seemed to have reached my speed limit.

[reliquary]

I've been "lurking" for a while, enjoying the comments here, and all are correct in their own arena.  I was a paper-puncher on post and division pistol teams in my early service career...never good enough to go to camp Perry, but well-ranked locally.  I set up Practical Police courses for my troops over the years, did bowling-pin matches after retirement, and practice pretty regularly in my senior years from the holster for CC. 
 
Having said all that, I'm better than the big-city PD lieutenant who gave me my initial testing, and better than any of  the instructors who've given me my renewal testing, since then.  Each part of training has had its place leading up to the current level of proficiency. 
 
The best you can do is select the weapon and gear, get good with it, and be confident in your abilities...some will be better than others at what they do. 

[Hank08]

CWlongshot, your absolutely right about the NRA bullseye. That's where I started and the trigger control has stayed with me thru shooting all kinds of competition. I can now say that I've achieved Lifetime Master in Bullseye, Master in IPSC, Grand Master in PPC, 127 1st places of 135 Cowboy shoots, held the world record, standing offhand productiion IHMSA. Master NRA High Power rifle,Master NRA  small bore rifle ,won every pistol shoot I've shot for the last 20 yrs. with muzzleloader single shot and most rifle, shotgun and smoothbore trade gun, won 8 guns at 2nd chance bowling pin shoot, won over 1400 awards for shooting, Love it, still shoot almost every day, I'm 80 yrs. old now and (knock on wood) still as steady and as accurate as I ever was. It's all about CONCENTRATION.
H08
 
                                                                                           
 

[SHOOTALL]

At some point each person has to pick their weapon . After that they need to pratice and pratice to become good enough and remain so. IMHO. If pratice includes a stress factor all the better.

[cwlongshot]

CWlongshot, your absolutely right about the NRA bullseye. That's where I started and the trigger control has stayed with me thru shooting all kinds of competition. I can now say that I've achieved Lifetime Master in Bullseye, Master in IPSC, Grand Master in PPC, 127 1st places of 135 Cowboy shoots, held the world record, standing offhand productiion IHMSA. Master NRA High Power rifle,Master NRA  small bore rifle ,won every pistol shoot I've shot for the last 20 yrs. with muzzleloader single shot and most rifle, shotgun and smoothbore trade gun, won 8 guns at 2nd chance bowling pin shoot, won over 1400 awards for shooting, Love it, still shoot almost every day, I'm 80 yrs. old now and (knock on wood) still as steady and as accurate as I ever was. It's all about CONCENTRATION.
H08

Congratulations on the achievments!!

I understand what the guys are trying to say. I really do, but they miss my point, Bullseye is the FOUNDATION one BUILDS upon. You and I (As well as a number of others who have commented and PM'd me) understand what I am saying. Give them time and they too will come around. IF they stay the course. ;

You have a wealth of experience and knoledge to offer!

CW
 
                                                                                         

[gypsyman]

hoggunner, put a B-27 target up, and staple an 8'' paper plate to the center of it. Take 4 paces, turn and fire, DON'T aim. Do a double tap. When you can get both shots into the paper plate, ought to be good enough. Your not shooting groups, or knocking over steel. Your learning to stay alive. Good Luck. gypsyman

[Hank08]

That'll work but put up 3 targets, one to your left, one to your right and one in the middle. Your gun is holstered the way you normally carry it, as you walk away the timer beeps then you turn draw and doubletap each target. Do this in 2 seconds or less. Then you may be ready. I've done it in 1.5 seconds, all A zone hits and I'm sure there are some who can do it 1 second and these days it's not only the good guys who are practicing and getting fast.
H08

[SHOOTALL]

Staple a 3 inch X 5 inch index card to a target backer . Step back 7 yards , draw and fire in 1.5 seconds . If you can't hit the card with your carry gun and ammo you need pratice . Then use a sheet of typing paper at 15 yards and double tap it in 2 seconds. Once more if you can't do it with your carry gun and ammo you aren't ready. This is not fast shooting at best its on the slow side of just getting by.
Things you will learn doing this.
1- when the sights work and how to use them.
2-how well you can operate your choice of weapon. Many learn that alot of safties that must be cleared to fire cost time that you may not have.
3- many learn that that magnum or heavy round won't allow a fast second shot.
4-you learn if your mode of carry allows a smooth fast draw .Also choice of holster is useable or does it slow you down ?
you will learn other things about yourself and gun use. You need to know where you stand . If you find or already know you are not up to par then be realistic and pratice , even dry fire will help .
BUT don't try for speed try to get the draw correct, try to get gun handleing down pat or get a gun like a Glock that requires less minulipation of buttons and levers so you can by pass the slow downs. START SLOW go thru. the correct moves let speed come when you are ready for it. Some say it takes 800 repetitions to have motor skill some saw 1500 . I think it depends on the skill level of the person and if they are doing it right and the same each time.
 
And just listen and smile when the guy down the street that never shoots his gun suggest he can draw his 1911 in condition 3 from his holster with a strap and hit the index card in less than a second !

[1911crazy]

With my 7 1/2'' barreled ruger redhawk in 44mag i could keep them in a 10'' circle at 100yds. on a good day.   I could hit a 6" paper plate at 100yds with my CZ85 in 9mm luger with 3' of kentucky windage.   I shoot 25yds all the time at the range but after the shoot i take a few out to 100yds  to see what i can do and if i still have it.   At 25yds i can do decent with any handgun.  I shoot 1 clover leaf per 8rd mag at 25yds with my norc 1911a1. (3 shot cloverleaf).   I know i need more practice.