Author Topic: Pitted bore - now what? (Read 1927 times)

tacotime · « **on:** July 16, 2012, 03:33:14 AM »

Got a little Ruger #3 in .223 used. Didn't shoot particularly well, so I went to handloading and improved it a good deal. In the process, I noticed the bore has shallow pitting, at least at both ends, not sure about the middle. Anything need to be done? Does lapping help it?

Also, can't seem to get the bore clean. I've ran Hoppe's, Shooters copper remover, Shooters lead remover and CLP with patches and snakes. Still get dark patches with lead remover, and slightly less dark ones with Hoppes and CLP. Copper remover had a few blue patches, but that faded quickly. Not sure if the previous owner shot cast bullets or what. Not sure why the lead remover would still be producing dark patches unless lead is coming out of the pitted areas. Thoughts?

gunnut69 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 16, 2012, 07:55:27 AM »

Pitting can increase metal fouling from bullets. This is laid down in layers and has to be removed in layers at times.. note -- not removing such fouling can trap moisture under metal and powder fouling. This moisture trapped next to the barrel steel will worsen the pitting.. The electro chemical cleaners that use reverse plating to remove metal fouling likely work best. They are a bit of a pain to use but absolutely do work. I've heard them blamed for pitting barrels but would bet they simply uncovered already existing pits by removing embedded metal fouling.. If the pitting is extensive fire lapping may help by removing some of the bore surface.. It is not a cure by any means. Only rebarreling or reboring is a cure..

Swampman · « **Reply #2 on:** July 16, 2012, 08:35:52 AM »

He probably shot foreign made ammo in it. A lot of that stuff still has corrosive primers. The pitting won't hurt anything.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #3 on:** July 16, 2012, 08:44:25 AM »

Some pitted guns shoot well others don't . The above post is good. I would add that jackets from different producers are well harder or softer. I would try different ones (start with serria or nosler) to see which fouled less. If it were mine and there are those who will disagree , I would soak the bore in amonia (sp ?) . I have done this to no ill effect on my guns and it will clean a bore. I wrap a patch around a bronze bore brush and soak the bbl and patch then clean. Sometimes I block the bore with a patch and fill letting it sit a while then clean.
With a well cleaned bore that has apperant pitts might need a few more fouling rounds before it shoots well than a slick bore.
also a Ruger SS can have forearm issues others here can tell more about.

tacotime · « **Reply #4 on:** July 16, 2012, 09:02:15 AM »

Not sure what he shot, or if he just let it get fouled and never properly cleaned it leaving trapped moisture as said.

The outside finish is excellent and does not appear to be reblued, making me suspect the lack of cleaning.

The gun shoots reasonably well now and improving with load development and more cleaning but I can't imagine the pitting doesn't cause some kind of accuracy issue, since the wear around the bullet is almost certainly not even after it travels down the bore. Whether it's significant enough to affect accuracy or not is another question.

I think I have dealt with the forearm issues by fully clearing it off the barrel and removing the barrel band.

Hate to think the cleaning just exposes the true depth of the pits, but I guess that is the reality of it. I think it makes some sense to polish the bore a bit here. Anyone disagree?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #5 on:** July 16, 2012, 09:35:33 AM »

As for pitting causing accuracy issues , it may or may not the bullet is spining so it may effect the bullet all the way round but in a screw pattern not around ?
Once the pit is filled with jacket metal its filled.
and if jacket is hard enough it might not get stripped off in the first place .
there are so many what ifs . If it shoots good why worry ?

Swampman · « **Reply #6 on:** July 16, 2012, 09:40:54 AM »

If it shoot good leave it alone.

tacotime · « **Reply #7 on:** July 16, 2012, 10:54:23 AM »

Well, "good" is relative. It started out not good, maybe 2 inches at 100 and with some flyers, and I have dropped that down to about 1.2, but it is still subject to flyers. I was sure it could beat the 2 inches.

Still developing the loads, and it's an acceptable hunting arm, but I wanted to do what may be needed for the pitted bore, and hope to get the gun down to 3/4 if I can.

Swampman · « **Reply #8 on:** July 16, 2012, 11:53:27 AM »

I wouldn't expect too much out of a #3.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 16, 2012, 12:53:02 PM »

Pitting is most certainly damaging to accuracy. It causes unbalanced bullets and that hurts accuracy. The degree of effect can be variable. Clean the bore as best you can. Sweet's7.62 is my favorite for jacket metal removal and little is better than HoppesNo.9 for powder fouling. I have even used steek wool (0000) wrapped round a bristle brush to speed the cleaning process and provide a bit of polishing for the bore.. The ammonia idea is ok and will help remove any corrosive priming remaining anywhere in the bore, although I wouldn't use the pure stuff.. A good window cleaner without the scent. It also makes a really effective black powder solvent but remember the steel cleaned thusly will be completely bare and will rust very quickly so lightly oil after such a thorough cleaning.. Also don't feel badly for ignoring Swampy's silly notions... Good luck with a nice little rifle..

Swampman · « **Reply #10 on:** July 16, 2012, 01:51:40 PM »

I've owned a lot more #3s than you have. Pitting won't normally hurt accuracy. I've outshot many modern scoped rifles with badly pitted Krags and Springfields with peep sights.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #11 on:** July 16, 2012, 09:42:47 PM »

You definitely want to get the fouling out first as already noted. Also it has already been mentioned that rust is likely present under the fouling. After it is removed you can look up the process for http://www.ehow.com/how_7881904_remove-rust-hydrolysis.html There are a lot of videos and write ups online. Just arm and hammer washing soda, a battery charger, water, a plastic container and a scrap piece of metal you want the rust to go to. BTW I have never had accuracy get worse with bore polishing. On a quality manufactured new barrel you can often shrink the groups noticeably. With pitted barrels it's hard not to make an improvement. After the rust is out and it is polished, cold bluing the bore may help keep the rust from coming back along with the light coat of oil. I live in the South. Bare metal rusts in no time down here.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #12 on:** July 16, 2012, 11:57:17 PM »

steel wool is good if its brass or stainless steel . mild steel wool can leave deposits that can rust . Same reason we don't use dies on SS pipe we cut threads on black pipe .

tacotime · « **Reply #13 on:** July 17, 2012, 06:37:35 AM »

Good advice. More scrubbing ahead with some polishing.
I hear Flitz is a good call for this.

I want to see this rifle go 3/4 at 100, or at least 1.0 to defy its critics. It's not that far off if that right now.

Swampman · « **Reply #14 on:** July 17, 2012, 06:42:53 AM »

The right ammo will probably get you there. It's already shooting better than most #1s & #3s. The pitting isn't the problem.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #15 on:** July 17, 2012, 07:07:47 AM »

Quote from: tacotime on July 17, 2012, 06:37:35 AM

Good advice. More scrubbing ahead with some polishing.
I hear Flitz is a good call for this.

I want to see this rifle go 3/4 at 100, or at least 1.0 to defy its critics. It's not that far off if that right now.

baking soda mixed with tooth paste or oil cost less and washes out easy .

Swampman · « **Reply #16 on:** July 17, 2012, 07:40:38 AM »

Brasso works like a champ. I learned this from the Marines. I make the frosty barrel of a Smith Corona 03A3 look 100% better using it.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #17 on:** July 17, 2012, 08:12:39 AM »

then there is KROIL

Brithunter · « **Reply #18 on:** July 17, 2012, 09:28:18 AM »

Once you scrub the bore again with nitro powder solvent, dry it with patches, the apply something like Forest Foaming bore cleaner. It eats copper and requires no scrubbing. The fouling is laid down in layers and really has to be removed as such.

Oh and IMHO throw the bore snake as far as you can and use a decent rod. The only place for a Bore snake is the trash bin again IMHO.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2012, 05:07:58 PM »

Brithunter is quite correct. The crud was laid down in layers and it'll go more quickly if it's removed the same way. Steel wool won't rust any quicker than the carbon steel of the barrel.. and it'll polish out both powder and metal fouling. Of course the simplest way to get the rifle shooting 1/2 inch or or smaller groups is to let swampy shoot it and filter the data thru his magic computer..

Brithunter · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2012, 11:39:05 PM »

The problem with steel wool, basso etc is that it will also round off the edges of the lands. Not the best idea especially as if the bore is pitted we need all the grip the lands can give on the bullet.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 18, 2012, 03:46:06 AM »

Steel wool is very non-agressive in its action. If the bore is pitted its already sustained some damage and the 0000 wool will polish a bit and remove the fouling mechanically.. I've used it many times with no ill effects.. It has roughly the same effect as a brass bristle brush but leave a smoother surface, important in an already rust roughened bore.

Swampman · « **Reply #22 on:** July 18, 2012, 04:56:59 AM »

Quote from: gunnut69 on July 17, 2012, 05:07:58 PM

Of course the simplest way to get the rifle shooting 1/2 inch or or smaller groups is to let swampy shoot it and filter the data thru his magic computer..

There's no filter that will make a Ruger a 1/2" rifle.

tacotime · « **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2012, 06:29:18 AM »

It would seem the goal would be to use an abrasive that is harder than lead and copper but softer than the bore itself...

gunnut69 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2012, 07:09:30 AM »

Steel wool in the 0000 range is very soft acting but will remove some of the sharp edges of some of those pits.. I don't know about some of the other polishes but for pitted bores steel wool (0000) will help some..

tacotime · « **Reply #25 on:** July 23, 2012, 07:00:26 AM »

Well with some moderate patch scrubbing with Brasso (liquid came out very dark), another run of Hoppe's, copper brush, and copper remover (a little blue on first two runs), bore snake to dry it out, swab with BreakFree and another trial load of Varget, the #3 fired a cloverleaf group measuring 1/4 inch center to center, with the first shot printed 7/8 in. over the group.

Not sure which or all of the steps have helped, along with the good advice here, but this gun has to be considered a nice shooter now!

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** July 23, 2012, 07:40:16 AM »

That's excellent. Sounds like you got it all worked out.

Frank46 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 23, 2012, 03:50:32 PM »

Get some JB bore cleaning compound and their JB bore brite. Use the bore cleaning compound first and clean out the bbl. Then use the bore brite to polish the bore. Has worked well for me. Frank

Brithunter · « **Reply #28 on:** August 13, 2012, 12:06:44 AM »

Quote from: tacotime on July 23, 2012, 07:00:26 AM

Well with some moderate patch scrubbing with Brasso (liquid came out very dark), another run of Hoppe's, copper brush, and copper remover (a little blue on first two runs), bore snake to dry it out, swab with BreakFree and another trial load of Varget, the #3 fired a cloverleaf group measuring 1/4 inch center to center, with the first shot printed 7/8 in. over the group.

Not sure which or all of the steps have helped, along with the good advice here, but this gun has to be considered a nice shooter now!

Sorry missed this again....................................... Glad to hear it has come good. Nice shooting too

.