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Author Topic: Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?  (Read 1670 times)

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Offline MLN1963

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Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?
« on: March 17, 2012, 11:27:22 AM »
I have a question about the CVA Apex. Is the frame or the barrel the gun? I see Apex muzzle loader frames for sale and wonder if these are legal to later add a rifle barrel? Can they were sold under the ML rules or are they an still a FFL item even though they are listed as a ML? It is a bit confusing to me why they would call it a ML frame.


Here is an example of one ad.


CVA Apex Muzzleloader Frame Stainless Steel & Black Synthetic Stock Finish (CVA AC4010S  APEX FRAME SS/BLACK)
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Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

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Re: Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2012, 02:48:22 PM »
The Apex FRAME is what has to be registered/sent to an FFL holder.
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Offline MLN1963

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Re: Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2012, 03:35:50 PM »
If that is the case why do they call it a muzzleloader frame? I'm not doubting you just trying to make sense of it. They are one in the same right?
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2012, 04:01:47 PM »
If the frame is capable of using centerfire barrels, it is a firearm according to ATF.  Same is true of TC Encore, and H&R Huntsman, (later made ones).  H&R Sidekicks are muzzle loader only, as the frame will not accept centerfire barrels.  The frame is what ATF considers the firearm.  Barrels may be sold and traded without issue.
 
Ben
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Offline MLN1963

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Re: Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2012, 06:37:48 AM »
Ben


I totally understand that. Why I see them advertised as ML frames is my concern. I didn't want to buy a "Muzzleloader frame" and find out there is some special ML frame mod or regulation that would keep me from physically or legally putting a rifle barrel on it later.


On this subject, is there a board or place that has a large number of used Apex barrels for sale? I see plenty for the other brands here but not much in the way of Apex.


Also, the CVA Apex is like the TCs and doesn't need fitting to the frame like the HRs right?
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2012, 02:57:18 PM »
With the Apex, you are buying a "firearm" in the eyes of the ATF, and after purchase with background check, you can put any barrel you want on it.  Like the TC's the barrels are supposed to drop in, but also like the TC's, sometimes they don't and require a bit of fitting.
 
At $299.00 for a barrel, they are also in the price point with TC, and well above H&R.
 
Different strokes for different folks makes the world go around.
 
I've stuck with the H&R's.
 
Ben
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Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

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Re: Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2012, 04:25:42 PM »
All Apex barrels this year will be $220 no matter what caliber. CVA will be the only place supplying them as the market for the Apex is still small.
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Offline OK hunter

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Re: Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2012, 03:00:04 AM »
BPI may have made a marketing decision by calling the Apex frame a "muzzle loader".  But don't be confused, that frame, as was accurately described above, is THE gun and is what is registered.  That it will accomodate a muzzleloading barrel as well as centerfire barrels is the pull when compared to the Encore.


I have purchased a naked frame to put with some additional barrels I have, leaving my original frame for the .50 BP.  I will likely sell the additional frame so if anyone has an interest, pm me.

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Offline MLN1963

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Re: Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2012, 07:14:54 AM »
Quote from: bigblock455 on March 18, 2012, 04:25:42 PM
All Apex barrels this year will be $220 no matter what caliber. CVA will be the only place supplying them as the market for the Apex is still small.


The prices on the CVA website are $360. How does one get the $220 price?
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Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

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Re: Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2012, 02:46:29 PM »
They most likely have not updated the prices yet.
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Offline MLN1963

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Re: Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2012, 02:52:21 PM »
Okay. How did you find this info out?
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2012, 10:45:41 AM »
He works for CVA.
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Offline MLN1963

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Re: Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2012, 12:09:04 PM »
Quote from: Swampman on April 21, 2012, 10:45:41 AM
He works for CVA.


This is good to know! Thanks.


Someone, maybe BB455, helped me when I called CVA a couple of weeks ago. They have great customer service and were very helpful. That is something that's getting rare these days.
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Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

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Re: Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2012, 09:04:17 AM »
WRONG. Swampman is a flat out liar when he says i work for CVA and trouble maker when it comes to CVA guns.

Swampman I am going to tell you straight up that i don't ever want to see you  making up stories about who i work for, on this forum.

I do some reviewing for companies and 'how i know what i know. Including Traditions.

Im in Colorado, not Georgia and am on no payroll at the moment nor have i ever been paid paid by any company that  deals with muzzle loading products.
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Offline pshootr

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Re: Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2012, 03:05:32 PM »
Arguing aside,i picked up a 7mm08 barrel from cva last year for 220.00.and it shoots excellent....
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Offline muznut 54

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Re: Apex Muzzleloader Frames, Rifle or ML rules?
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2012, 08:33:59 AM »
I bought an Apex .308 and then a 50 muzzy barrel, it fit perfect. Then I bought another frame for the muzzy barrel and fit was perfect too. I can swap barrels on both frames and fit is perfect also.   
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