Author Topic: 30-06 Suggestions? (Read 1494 times)

S8Raz · « **on:** July 19, 2012, 03:37:36 AM »

I've got H4985 and 3031. Some Hornady fp 170s and Speer fp 150s.
Got my '06 and 30-30 barrels back from Brian a few weeks back, fitted to my 223 frame.
The other barrels are close - enough to work on. (Yes, I got bit hard - I'm working up three barrels at once).
First time out, the '06 with a 43gr load of 3031 behind thd the Speer150 won't even group. They were seated about 0.010 off the lands, with a crimp. Very frustrating.
I like to keep the '06 loads on the low end. I've gotten used to that in my P17 which has already brought home a bunch of deer. (I know, don't expect the same results in different guns...) Zeroing with full-house 30-06 loads isn't my idea of fun either.
I may just put the '06 aside for this year and work on the 223 and 30-30.

Any help from the '06 Handi experts would be greatly appreciated.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2012, 04:08:51 AM »

WELCOME!

Your 4895 will yield some pleasnt loadings. It's a good powder selection for the Garrand rifle. (I know you didn't mention Garrand. I bring it up only bacause of its pressure requirements and 4895 is a good choice for it so would be good for you as well.)

Personally I like 165 and 180g in the 06' the 150 can be good too. Check your Manuel's for some recipes.

A word of caution on any 170g slug. Keep your impact velocity BELOW 2400fps All 170g slugs are designed for lost pressure and low velocity chamberings than the '06. If pushed faster they will come apart and penetration will be compromised. SAME for FP 150Gr.
RN bullets could go either way. A real RN is not as safe in a tubular mag as a FP bullet. Not to mention the RN is meant for more velocity as well.

3031 is also a good all around choice powered and I am sure a acceptable
Recipe can be found using iit as well.

CW

scratchmark · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2012, 05:09:44 AM »

Ive been using the same load for over 20 years in my 30-06.48grs of imr3031 behind a 150 sierra bthp(matchking or gameking) with excellent results as you can see from my avatar. All 3 were shot within 2 hrs at ranges from 20yrds to 200yrds on gamelands.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2012, 05:32:42 AM »

With the h4895 46 gr is a good load that I use for a garand. 3.25" oal. 150 gr sierra gameking. It also did well in a model 70. Showing 1.4" in the garand and 1.03" in the winchester. A lot of better powders if you are interested in velocity. But I have hunted with the garand and this load and it is plenty for whitetail.

My load data says .75" groups in .223 2.25" oal 25.6 gr in a handy with H4855 55 gr sierra sp (varminter now I think). Definitely not a tack driver. Benchmark is what I've been playing with lately. Varget, h380, h335, blc-2 and many others are more suited for the 223. Showing .72" in an ar that does .68" with russian silver bear factory ammo.

For a win 94 I'm showing 170 gr speer ft, neck sized 32.1 gr imr 3031 2.55" oal for .72" groups. I need to get that gun out and play with it, it's been years since I shot it. Didn't realize it was that accurate. Not bad for a sears and roebuck branded win.

I only use cci primers they will be small and large rifle, no magnum primers.

S8Raz · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2012, 08:54:57 AM »

Bugflipper; Scratchmark; CW - Thanks for the info.
I neglected to mention that the P17 is very old sporter with only a 21" tube. I keep the 170gr's (Speers, usually) on the low end with a starter recipe of IMR3031 to around 2500fps. Don't have a chrony yet, so I can't confirm. As I mentioned, several deer have ridden home in the back of the truck with this recipe. All I've ever used for lr primers is CCI 200s. (Lee equipment).
The reason for using the thinner jacketed bullets is to insure that there is expansion at the slower-than-stock velocity. I've tracked a couple deer onto the next property that were hit with "standard" '06 bullets. With the fp's I've never had one go more than 40yds.
As the Handi is quite a bit lighter than the P17 sporter, I was looking to the 150gr loads due to recoil.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2012, 08:56:02 AM »

Speer 165grain Spitzers, I3031 couple of grains below maximum, no crimp bullet just shy of the rifling, WLR primers. Submoa @ 100 yards with a Handi 06' that I cut down to just over 18". Not a hot load.

BB

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2012, 09:15:52 AM »

The only load I've worked up in my 30-06 H&Rs was in the Ultracomp, the 200gr Nosler Partition with RL22, very accurate, didn't chrono it, but the Nosler 6th lists it as 2603fps from their 24" barrel. I chose the NP cuz they were available as seconds....cheap when the order is big enough to cover shipping.

I've loaded RL22 with 180gr Accubonds in my son's Win 670 and my best friend's Browning Medallion, both shot well under an inch at 100yds.

Tim

cwlongshot · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2012, 09:53:09 AM »

The shorter tube will only result in a small decrease in velocity.

I can absolutely tell you form first hand experience you are pushing the 170G 30-30 bullets too fast. Think about it, the fastest they are going outta a 30-30 lever is ADVERTISED 2300fps.. REALITY your lucky to see 2200 and just over 2000fps is closer to reality... So pushing 2500+ is a sure recipe for a long long tracking job and a very real possibility of a lost animal.

Dropping to a 150 G is a good idea as most of the problems with expansion come form the heavier weight bullets. I have found a better compromise weight to be 165G bullets. I use a discontinued Speer 165 RN with excellent success in 300Sav, 307, 308 30/06 and 300 H&H calibers. But there are other good bullets avalible.

CW

Bugflipper · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2012, 10:08:18 AM »

I used to hunt swamp land that was very thick. The wild japanese privet is an evergreen bush/tree here. A deer that runs 50 yards could take a couple of hours to find in that mess even if you knew about where he fell. At the time it was really hard to find the 130 gr single shot pistol hornady bullets. I ended up calling them to try and locate retailers nearby to call since there weren't any online. They said that the 130 gr sp had the same thickness jacket and interbond. The bullet in an 06 would make a hole like a 7 mm mag and resulted in bang flops so no searching forever or losing anymore deer. The sad part was you could be within a few foot of them and never see them in that thick junk. I hunt mountain land now so I just use a 308 with bulk 150 sp rem bullets. But under certain circumstances it's good to have a bullet that is pushed beyond what it was designed for.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2012, 11:22:39 AM »

Lighter bullets for a given caliber CAN increase preformance on game. BUT its a fine line and without extensive testing its a poke n hope proposition... I have found the best bet is to go heavy for caliber OR follow manufacturers recomendations of recomended impact velocities.

The 30 cal has been plagued with problems mostly because the 300's, 308/30 06 and 300 Savage & 30-30 Win/30 Rem. are all shooting the same .308 diameter slugs. With the acception fo the 30 rem and 30-30 using exactly the same bullets... Common sence tells us a perfectly preforming bullet fired form a 300 savage is not going to be the best in a 300/378 Weatherby.

I feel up to 200 increase in is acceptable on a 30 Rem/30-30 Win bullet for use in a larger 30 cal. I have used most of the avalible offerings and Hornadys are best for holding together while Speers where worst Sierras in the middle... I have lost deer to the 150 and 170 Speer bullets at the exact vel S8Raz has posted... One was one of the biggest bucks we have seen... the bullets went in, and never came out. Altho they came appart, they did not do so distructively enough for the lightning bolt kill. Now I have zero doubt these animals died. But how quickly and where are the mysteries as we never recovered them... Then (same week) pop shot a small 8PT with the same loading at approx the same distance and conditions. This is this buck ran straight to me and dropped dead... I was about 1/4 mile away. there was NO BLOOD TRAIL between the two points...

Should that same bullet have been loaded say 200 FPS more that lightning bolt kill could have happened but say going 400 more fps may have resulted in inched of penetration and a horiffic flesh wound... This is we just don't know...

CW

gendoc · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2012, 01:38:56 PM »

Quote from: bikerbeans on July 19, 2012, 08:56:02 AM

Speer 165grain Spitzers, I3031 couple of grains below maximum, no crimp bullet just shy of the rifling, WLR primers. Submoa @ 100 yards with a Handi 06' that I cut down to just over 18". Not a hot load.

BB

hey bb,
we both know what works and calculates in sum will not be tha same in others.
so all tha flavors mentioned mite taste like rotten CHEEZE in others.
folks, best thing to do is experiment with what you have, before you spend lottsa $$ and not find any better results.

h4895, 3031 and many others will do jus fine in tha 06 from 120-180gr if there loaded properly.
only somethin your rifle will know from development.

short barrels, notta problem... jus modify your handload.....................

to loose is to gain, to gain is to loose

Sourdough · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2012, 04:19:30 PM »

I started using IMR-3031 with good results. For all the bullets I load for the 06s. I load 125 gr Speer TNTs. using 52gr of IMR 3031. I use 61.5 gr of RL-22 for the 165gr Nosler Accubond. That gives me the velocity my scope is calibrated for with my 30-06 Ultra Comp. I use 56 gr of winchester 760 with the Sierria 165 gr SPBT, in my old standard Handi.(This is one hot load). I use 59.5 gr of RL-22 with the Nosler 180 gr Partition in my Handi Ultra.

These loads are used for ranges from 50 to 700 yards. Yes they are all higher than normal at 125 yards, but they can reach out there and touch things. The Caribou in my avitar was shot at 250 yards with my standard Handi, and the 165 gr Sierria bullet.

ratdog · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2012, 07:38:43 PM »

i have been shooting 125 grn bullets out of my handy with 4895 doesn't hammer you. and 115 grn bullets in my 30-30 both fast and accurate.don't really need much more on deer here. i like lighter bullet if i fill the need i use the 45-70 with the 405 grn bullets i don't see much walking or running away from the 45-70.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2012, 02:51:17 AM »

IMHE it is pretty hard to find a really bad load for a .30, though some are better than others. Any mid-data on up book load should have you getting, at least, large varmint to deer hunting accuracy. Some rifles need some break in rounds, and H&Rs are noted for liking to be shot 'dirty'.
Is the buttstock bolt tight? Scope on the '06 a known good one and well mounted? Make sure the gun/scope are all right before you blame the barrel, but a quick test is to drop a new bullet into the breach and see if it goes up the barrel a ways, same from the muzzle.

S8Raz · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2012, 08:38:34 AM »

Didn't mean to stir up a hornets' nest w/my confession on using the 170s.
Might beg some Sierra 165hp's from my brother in law to give them a quick try and relegate the fp's to the 30-30.

Airsporter · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2012, 10:19:11 AM »

BIG MORTIE preferred Remington green box

!

Sourdough · « **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2012, 03:04:56 PM »

If you are looking for superlite recoil loads, say for kids, or starting a small woman off with a 30-06. Go to Hodgdon's web site and look at Trail Boss. Good subsonic loads too.

mauser98us · « **Reply #17 on:** July 20, 2012, 05:21:07 PM »

In addition to 3031/4895, IMR 4064 MUST be included

gcrank1 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 25, 2012, 03:49:24 AM »

I just gotta try those TrailBoss loads with lead bullets. My cast loads have been running in the 1450fps range anyway so TB on the upper reaches looks to be similar

.

mauser98us · « **Reply #19 on:** July 25, 2012, 04:54:03 PM »

I get better results witth cast using Accurate 5744

gcrank1 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 26, 2012, 02:33:20 AM »

What velo are you shooting at?

ratdog · « **Reply #21 on:** July 26, 2012, 08:35:29 AM »

sourdough i am going to try trail boss in my 30-06 i sure like it in my 30-03 and 45-70.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #22 on:** July 26, 2012, 09:26:08 AM »

My experience with Handis has been that they need load development. Not just the newer ones, but the "pre-Handirifle" H&Rs also. Make up loads from 10% (or lower) of max, five rounds per charge, and increase these in 1/2 grain increments to max. Start shooting from a rest with the lightest load, then switch to a new target and use the next load, etc. You will see the groups tighten up to what the rifle likes, then start to open up again.

Make sure that you have marked each load so you will know what is best!

I don't have a .30-06 any more, but when I did I used IMR-4064 behind Hornady 150 grain spire points, and was able to get sub MOA groups.

I like 5 shot groups because they will show a flyer better than 3 shot groups.

Hope this helps!
-Kees-

gcrank1 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 26, 2012, 12:46:57 PM »

FWIW, my 30-06 Lite is intended for cast bullet schuetzen type shooting and to somewhat emulate the 32-40 HV loading in deference to the faster twist of the '06. This means much slower than almost anybody else and a high looper/lotta drop kinda load. If I do my part they 'drop' right into the 25 (center) ring at 200yd. offhand.
I will never wear it out with the loads I use

.

S8Raz · « **Reply #24 on:** September 02, 2012, 05:39:05 PM »

Range report
Worked up some H4895 loads per the recommendations of the guys at Hodgdon and Speer. (2300fps max). With both the Speer 170 flat points, the P17 and Handi had very respectable results.