Author Topic: 45-70 Handi  (Read 879 times)

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Offline JPH45

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45-70 Handi
« on: February 07, 2004, 11:15:11 AM »
Shot my 45-70 yesterday, not bad at all. I have added weight to my gun by filling the the stock bolt hole with #8 shot, and as an experiment I took 3 hose clamps and clamped a peice of brass bar stock to the barrel. This two additions brought the weight up to 9 pounds. ( I know that sounds "houlliganish" even downright redneck Bubba, but it is an experiment. I am working out a proper mount for the weight.

I fired 3 rounds of the Winchester 300 grain JHP load, it should have given a velocity of about 1800 fps. Recoil felt about like a ported 20 guage overand under. I would have no trouble shooting up to 50 rounds in a session from this gun. As a result of the barel taper, the weight slipped its clamps on the third shot, so it will be nessicary to make a more permanent mounting system for this forward weight.

I ordered my dies and brass today along with the Lee 457-340-F bullet mold. I struggled for a while over getting the 340 or a 405 grain mold. I decided on the 340 as this weight will handle anything I would shoot with the gun, and being recoil conscience as a result of a torn rotator cuff tendon years back, I see no reason to deal will any unnessicary level of recoil, which is what put me off the 45-70 for a long time.

At the end of things over on the old site, it was sounding as though NEF was going to discontinue the 44 Magnum barrel as well. To any who were thinking of getting a 44 Handi, note that if you reload the 45-70 can be loaded to shoot as mild as the 44 and will get as wild as yu are willing to stand it. Good Shooting and more to come, JP
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Offline Big Blue

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45-70 Handi
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2004, 02:39:43 PM »
JPH45,
  I had just gotten my Buffalo Classic on Tuesday, and then this happened. I'm glad we have found a way around our problem. I tried shooting the BC with Rem. 405 gr. factory loads, and the 8 pounds of weight it comes with, makes me wish it had come with a recoil pad. There's a lot of mule in that steel butt plate. I plan on adding weight to bring it up to at least 10 pounds. The gun is naturally a bit barrel heavy, so the weight in the stock shouldn't be a problem. I was wondering, if you had concidered drilling the foregrip, and adding weight there. Or possibly the use of the synthetic survivor foregrip. I believe it is already hollow and could easily have weight added. I would still like to add a 45/70 barrel to one of my other Handi's, maybe the 7mm-08 I have. I haven't bought dies, or bullets for this caliber yet, but plan on it. I was looking to use the Cast Performance 405 gr. and the 440 gr. bullets for this. Meanwhile, I had grouped 7/8" at 50 yards with the Rem. factory loads. I want to try these at 100 yards and see how it does. The factory sights on this gun aren't up to target shooting, but until I'm able to replace them, I'll work with what I have. Keep in touch, and let me know how your loads work out.
Don

Offline JPH45

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45-70 Handi
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2004, 03:22:28 PM »
Big Blue, or for good men to address the wrong problem....

Anyway, I like the weight forward of the forearm as it makes the gun more muzzle heavy and thereby more stable offhand. I will probably do all my practice shooting offhand with this gun, other than what may be nessicary for sighting in different loads, as this will be the gun I use to hunt next year.  

I love my 44 Mag Handi, but it has a very serious limitation with cast bullets. As velocities get above 1300 fps the groups begin to open and by 1500 fps have shots have become unpredictable. At 1700 fps the gun will group into 5" or so,  but there is no eveness or repeatability in the group. One shot at 6, one at 12 one at 9, 2" from point of aim the nest at 1 3" from point of aim. I suspect that the throat lead angle needs to be changed for accuracy with velocity.

From what I have heard others report, the same is true of the 45-70, the faster with cast, the more erratic the groups. So if the practical limitation of accurate velocity with cast bullets is 1300-1400 fps, then the only solution to ensuring more reliable kills is to increase bullet weight. Ergo, 44 Mag to 45-70.

Using a 256 grain cast bullet moving 1250 fps this year, I shot 2 does. The first was a clean shot just behind the diaphram, cleaving the liver in two and taking the deer out, she ran probably 50 yards from where she was shot. She made racket the whole way and was easy to find. The second was shot low in the chest, she too ran about 50 yards, I found the bullet in the offside "elbow" just under the hide caught between muscle and tendon. Both were shot inside 30 yards. Needless to say I am not heartily impressed with the second shot. Did it kill her cleanly? Yes, but it strikes me as iffy performance, as does my off hand shooting. I did all of my practice off the bench this year, very little ofhand. Of 6 shots I made on 5 deer, 1 was exactly where I wanted. Other wise I am shooting about a 7" circle.  

Not bad for offhand, stalk hunting, going from "no deer" to "there it is" and getting a shot off inside 3 seconds or so....all at 25 yards or less...but not as good as I want. And don't believe that old lie that deer can't see.
And I want more juice to deliver a heavier blow. That simple. I want a heavier gun, not only to absorb and control recoil, but to steady the rifle and aim as well. In a perfect world, practice would be with my hunting rifle against a tall bank at moderate speed clays with shots not greater than 30 yards crossing at 90 degrees and quartering away...in a perfect world. Oh well.

I will look into the synthetic forearm, thanks for the suggestion. I am also considering making a two leaf express sight, one leaf sighted "0" at 75 yards one leaf "0" at 150, that covers all my possibilities. Have thought of a ramped, two position ghost ring type sight as well. A simple detent ball would keep the sight in one or the other position. The sight would of course be regulated for one load, but in hunting just how many different loads does a fellow use, most especially with a 45-70.

A bit long, sorry, JP
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Offline Big Blue

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45-70 Handi
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2004, 03:58:02 PM »
JPH45,
  I've been hunting with the .44 mag., but not a Handi. I have a Marlin 1894P, it's a short 16" ported barreled rifle. I have been loading 320 gr. Cast Performance bullets for it. They move out at about 1600 FPS, and boy do they work on deer. I shot a buck two hours into opening day with it. He was about 80 yards away, and had just ran into the path I was on. I had a split second to get the gun up and fire, as he was already turning his head to run. The bullet hit him just behind and under the shoulder, and exited the other side. He went down on the spot with more bleeding than I have ever seen a deer do. If the .44 mag. with 320 gr. bullets works that well, the 45/70 should be great on deer. The only reason I can see for going faster than 1400FPS with the 45/70, is to gain more distance. The loads at 1400 FPS should be fine for deer out to 100 yards, and beyond.
Don

Offline JPH45

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45-70 Handi
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2004, 11:41:10 AM »
Unfortunately, the 1 in 38 twist of the Handi won't stabilize a bullet the length of a 320 grain  cast. :(  (did I say this already?) My order from Midway should arrive Wednesday, and I will be able to cast some bullets and give them a run through over the weekend.  ( I probably already said that too.)
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Offline Woodbutcher

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45-70 Handi
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2004, 02:20:19 PM »
Hey JPH45, I'll be interested in your results with the 340 gr. bullet. I'm gettin setup to reload with my new Lee Loader, and I want to use lead bullets, so this is good stuff. ....Woodbutcher