Author Topic: 12 ga rifled blank... (Read 2024 times)

Victor3 · « **on:** September 08, 2012, 10:23:48 PM »

Just an FYI in case anyone's interested in maybe building a rifled 12 ga bore cannon barrel, I notice that E.R. Shaw offers a blank for $135. I got one from Hastings some time back but they're out of business now. I don't know of another company who sells them...

http://www.ershawbarrels.com/scb-price-list.php

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #1 on:** September 09, 2012, 10:13:39 AM »

I have a 10 ga smoothbore that will end up being a muzzle loader cannon someday. Rifled sounds interesting too.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #2 on:** September 09, 2012, 12:10:36 PM »

Victor,
Refresh my memory; was the barrel that you bought the same OD front to back?

Victor3 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 09, 2012, 09:30:54 PM »

Yes, it's 1.25" diameter full length. I don't know what the E.R. Shaw bbls are. Probably have to call them; I don't see dimensions on their website.
I paid ~$200 for the one I got, and that was over 10 years ago. $135 sounds pretty cheap.

GGaskill · « **Reply #4 on:** September 10, 2012, 08:36:23 AM »

I got the following reply from ER Shaw to a request for dimensions of their rifled shotgun blanks:

Good Morning,
We offer 12ga and 20ga. The OD is 1.250" the entire length, the 12ga bore is .725 to .730 ID, and the 20ga bore is .618 to .622 ID. Price on these are $80 each and shipping is $20 per blank.

Thanks for asking, ...

Cannoneer · « **Reply #5 on:** September 10, 2012, 12:10:07 PM »

This keeps getting better, now it's down to a hundred incuding shipping. I've got three barrels bored .75 caliber that might be possible candidates to be opened up to an inch and a quarter.

Victor3 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 11, 2012, 12:18:08 AM »

Heck, even I might could afford one at that price. Thanks for contacting them, George.

Been looking for a cheap 20mm bbl to sleeve my smooth bore 1" Parrott for some time, but may order a 12 ga instead. Already made a mould for the French 75/12 ga Dom built for me.

BTW - The one I got from Hastings was 24" long. I imagine the Shaw ones would be at least that.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 11, 2012, 04:14:08 AM »

I'll hold out for a Seacoast rifled tube........ it will be worth the wait.

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #8 on:** September 11, 2012, 05:15:51 AM »

Quote from: Victor3 on September 11, 2012, 12:18:08 AM

Been looking for a cheap 20mm bbl to sleeve my smooth bore 1" Parrott for some time,

I don't think there is such a thing as a cheap 20mm barrel.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #9 on:** September 11, 2012, 11:45:19 AM »

Every once in a while we all have to cool our jets and contemplate the sage advice that is found inside the cover of every Brownell's Catalog. A quote by John Ruskin resides there. This year's is most appropriate for this thread. In the 1830s he wrote this:

"It is unwise to pay too much.....but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money.....that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do."

His advice is a useful today as it was 180 years ago.

December, KABAR 2, December.

Tracy

Zulu · « **Reply #10 on:** September 11, 2012, 12:57:54 PM »

Quote from: seacoastartillery on September 11, 2012, 11:45:19 AM

Every once in a while we all have to cool our jets and contemplate the sage advice that is found inside the cover of every Brownell's Catalog. A quote by John Ruskin resides there. This year's is most appropriate for this thread. In the 1830s he wrote this:

"It is unwise to pay too much.....but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money.....that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do."

His advice is a useful today as it was 180 years ago.

December, KABAR 2, December.

Tracy

Tracy,
That is the most useful advice I have seen on this forum so far.
I will remember it.
Zulu

Cannoneer · « **Reply #11 on:** September 11, 2012, 04:44:16 PM »

Quote from: seacoastartillery on September 11, 2012, 11:45:19 AM

Every once in a while we all have to cool our jets and contemplate the sage advice that is found inside the cover of every Brownell's Catalog. A quote by John Ruskin resides there. This year's is most appropriate for this thread. In the 1830s he wrote this:

"It is unwise to pay too much.....but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money.....that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do."

His advice is a useful today as it was 180 years ago.

December, KABAR 2, December.

Tracy

So you've now changed your minds, and are also going to be rifling smaller than 1-inch bore inserts, along with larger bored, thicker blanks meant to be shaped into cannon profiles.

Victor3 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 12, 2012, 02:12:51 AM »

Quote from: KABAR2 on September 11, 2012, 04:14:08 AM

I'll hold out for a Seacoast rifled tube........ it will be worth the wait.

I'll get both.

As someone once said (probably before gas was $4/gal) "there's no replacement for displacement."

1" is where "real" cannons start IMHO, but a cople of my "toys" could use an accuracy upgrade.

GGaskill · « **Reply #13 on:** September 12, 2012, 09:30:21 AM »

I'll get both.

1" is where "real" cannons start IMHO, but a cople of my "toys" could use an accuracy upgrade.

+1

Cannoneer · « **Reply #14 on:** September 12, 2012, 03:46:18 PM »

Then it would still appear that in the realm of real options, this outfit sort of has the market cornered.

Of the three I mentiond, I think this barrel would benefit the most by having one of these rifled 12-gauge blanks installed. It's cast aluminum with a 1/8" walled smoothbore .75 caliber liner, 19.50" overall length, and a 1.75" diameter muzzle.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #15 on:** September 14, 2012, 02:50:35 AM »

Quote from: GGaskill on September 10, 2012, 08:36:23 AM

I got the following reply from ER Shaw to a request for dimensions of their rifled shotgun blanks:

Good Morning,
We offer 12ga and 20ga. The OD is 1.250" the entire length, the 12ga bore is .725 to .730 ID, and the 20ga bore is .618 to .622 ID. Price on these are $80 each and shipping is $20 per blank.

Thanks for asking, ...

Did they happen to give you any info about the steel (I'm assuming that it's made of 4140)?

GGaskill · « **Reply #16 on:** September 14, 2012, 09:26:29 AM »

Did they happen to give you any info about the steel (I'm assuming that it's made of 4140)?

I did not ask and they did not say and I couldn't find anything on their website. Best, I think, to try contacting them directly at http://www.ershawbarrels.com/contact-information.php.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #17 on:** September 17, 2012, 12:39:39 PM »

It's 4140.

Victor3 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 17, 2012, 11:33:14 PM »

4140 might present a problem for some folks if welding were required in their design.

The one I got was 4130 according to the supplier.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #19 on:** September 18, 2012, 06:05:52 AM »

I've already thought about that, it's going to have to be welded by someone that knows what they're doing with 4140.

Have you given any thought as to what your breech plug is going to be like?

Cannoneer · « **Reply #20 on:** September 20, 2012, 07:09:46 AM »

Here's a correction on the information from E.R. Shaw on the shotgun blank.

Their shotgun blanks are made of 1137 steel, the full length is 24", and the bore is button rifled the entire length.

GGaskill · « **Reply #21 on:** September 20, 2012, 02:58:27 PM »

1137 may still present a welding problem because of its sulfur and relatively high carbon content. Have done some searching but haven't found much.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #22 on:** September 20, 2012, 06:02:42 PM »

I've been looking too, and I hope this is an exaggeration.

"Medium carbon. 1045, 1137, 1144. Medium carbon means medium strength. Usually cold drawn. Can be heat treated. Not recommended for cold heading. Welding requires special practices and residual control. (Do not weld 11XX grades due to high sulfur content!)"

Cannoneer · « **Reply #23 on:** September 27, 2012, 02:29:21 PM »

This gives me pause.

Weldability: This grade is not readily welded due to the high carbon content and high sulphur content. Preheating is a must, and alloy filler is recommended to achieve equivalent strength. Stress relieving is also recommended.
http://www.metalbarsinc.com/stock.htm

AISI 1137 Longhai Steel
Welding
Successfully welded by common fusion and resistance methods, this alloy should not be joined by oxyacetylene welding. AWS E/ER630 filler metal is recommended if required.

GGaskill · « **Reply #24 on:** September 27, 2012, 08:41:50 PM »

If you want to make the effort, the way to get the best info is to call the Help line of one of the major producers of welding rod and ask, " Which (use vendor's name here) filler rod should I use to weld AISI 1137 to (whatever your breech plug would be made of)?" For example, if I were calling AIRCO, I would say. "Which Airco filler rod should I use to weld 1137 to 1018? Are any special techniques required?" Personally, I would only consider using TIG as the process, but that's me.