Author Topic: Getting the Lead Out. (Read 1073 times)

greenrivers · « **on:** December 19, 2012, 01:43:40 AM »

I believe I have found my accuracy problem, and why my barrel seems tight about mid way. Lead fowling. Any easy removal tips aside from the chore boy that I now use?
Thank you for any help.

lakota · « **Reply #1 on:** December 19, 2012, 07:29:46 AM »

Swab your bore with Kano Kroil and let it sit for a few minutes and try scrubbing it out. That stuff seems like it creeps under them most stubborn fouling and loosens it up. Are you shooting patched round balls or bullets?

Hellgate · « **Reply #2 on:** December 19, 2012, 09:01:51 AM »

Lakota is right,

Kroil will "creep" under the lead and it will come out in flakes onto the patch. It's not fool proof but I sure like it as my cleaning solvent wherever there is leading. Otherwise a tornado brass coiled brush loosens it up pretty well too.

greenrivers · « **Reply #3 on:** December 19, 2012, 04:51:20 PM »

The barrel has never seen much use until recently but all use has been with Maxi's. I bought a T/C mold when I got the rifle and was about to try round ball with a new mold I just picked up.
I will look up the Kano Kroil and give it a try.
Thanks for the help. Any tips on preventing it in the first place? Pushing them to hard, or lube? I have been using one hundred grains of Shuetzen and a home made lube.

Hellgate · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2012, 05:12:20 PM »

You may be running out of lube and the leading is being scraped off onto the hard fouling. It sounds like you are shooting heavy hunting loads (which is all I shoot too). You may be getting some blowby that can deposit lead onto the bore also. That can happen if the bullet doesn't bump up when accelerated by the charge. Too small of a bottom driving band or a harder alloy can prevent the bullet from obturating. What caliber are we talking about here?

Ranch13 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 19, 2012, 05:30:48 PM »

A cleaning patch soaked with pure gum spirits of turpentine will lift lead out alot quicker than Kroil. Plus with Kroil it's a good idea to go back in after you're thru with it, and make sure the Kroil is gone from the barrel, any spots with it left will pull lead, sort of a leading begets leading deal...
Sounds like your homemade lube is failing. Use 50/50 beeswax and vaseline, for a pretty decent homemade lube.

srussell · « **Reply #6 on:** December 19, 2012, 07:30:44 PM »

go get some brass choir boy scrubbing pads. wrap some around a cleaning brush are jag 5 min your done

greenrivers · « **Reply #7 on:** December 20, 2012, 02:20:55 AM »

I am shooting a .54 Hawkins T/C. I had only lightly used the rifle years ago, and recently picked it up again. The tight area seemed to be diagnosed as having used Pyrodex and T/C Bore Butter. After a good cleaning, (several} the problem seemed ok. I am now wondering if the deposits were really lead and not lube. I did look up and change to a home made lube of beeswax, carnuba, olive oil and parafin that I pan lube the bullets with. Completely filling the lube groves. Even with the lube, I was finding it necessary to swab between shots. I am just about to give up on the Maxi's in my rifle and go to PRB only. I did use a lighter load years ago, but the 100gr load is well withing limits. The bullets are my own cast and are cast from scrap lead found to be pure lead, plumbing, flashing etc..

srussell · « **Reply #8 on:** December 20, 2012, 10:51:39 AM »

bore butter will build up bad

coyotejoe · « **Reply #9 on:** December 21, 2012, 12:04:05 PM »

Easiest way to avoid leading is to stick with patched balls. Back in the early 70's I was new to muzzleloading and was a big fan of Elmer Keith so of course I shot maxis over 100+ grains of powder. As I learned more about both muzzleloaders and about hunting I found I just didn't need to beat myself up with such loads. The patched balls kicked a lot less, shot flatter, grouped tighter and killed just as dead.

greenrivers · « **Reply #10 on:** December 21, 2012, 04:28:06 PM »

Got to admit, I too am a big fan of Kieth. As well as John Moses Browning. If I can ever get this blasted barrel clean and try the RB, I may never come back to maxi's.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #11 on:** December 21, 2012, 09:22:00 PM »

I lap a barrel when i first get it, new or used. Whether prb or conicals I use 50/50 beeswax/alox for a lube. On conicals there's an over powder cardboard wad. Never get leading with pure lead conicals. To clean I use ballistol so it doesn't mess up the season. A good lube and a punch for a wad to seal the pressure under the bullet would probably do the trick for you. Hard to beat lapping though. If there are no rough spots to begin with less chance of lead sticking. To lap most of the time I am lazy. Just chuck a rod in a cordless drill and put jewelers rouge on a mop at a slow speed.

Victor3 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 22, 2012, 12:17:15 AM »

Quote from: Bugflipper on December 21, 2012, 09:22:00 PM

To lap most of the time I am lazy. Just chuck a rdf in a cordless drill and put jewelers rouge on a mop at a slow speed.

Sounds like a good way to convert a rifle into a shotgun.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #13 on:** December 22, 2012, 06:30:33 AM »

I don't think you could do that unless you used something very abrasive. Jewelers rouge is extremely fine. It's used on buffing wheels to polish gold and silver, it's not a cutter. For sears it takes a little while with a dremel to get one polished at high speed, same for a feed ramp, but a little more time for the larger area. At low speed it takes a good while to even polish bluing or a clear coat on a stock.

Victor3 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 22, 2012, 11:25:42 PM »

I'm familiar with various compounds (including jeweler's rouge) for gun work. They all "cut" to some degree; otherwise they wouldn't be doing anything.

The issue here is the method. A rotating mop charged with abrasive (no matter how fine) is not the best method for polishing a rifled bore. For one, it overly erodes/rounds the edges of the lands which isn't good for accuracy, especially in a BP rifle where a projectile needs to obturate and engage the rifling. Second, a rotating mop does little to polish the grooves. Third, the rotating mop is going to "dwell" at breech and muzzle as the operator changes direction, causing the abrasive to remove more material at those points than in the rest of the bore.

If one sees a need to polish a rifled bore, a better method is to run a nylon brush with an abrasive-charged patch wrapped around it back and forth as it forms to and "rides" the rifling from breech to muzzle.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #15 on:** December 23, 2012, 03:16:16 AM »

1+ on that, rotation is exactly what you don't want to do. Using the same swab and compound in a liner motion, allowing the rod to rotate to follow the twist of the lands may be OK but spinning anything in a rifled bore is not a good idea.

greenrivers · « **Reply #16 on:** December 23, 2012, 02:50:51 PM »

Sometimes bore lapping to remove roughness is employed, but usually in a rather differant way. It usually includes slugging the barrel. I believe that a positive intent is there but a bit more research needs to be done. Thanks for the intent.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 23, 2012, 06:39:33 PM »

i've always used jb compound on a tight
fitting patch on a range rod for about 10
in and out and change jb patches for about
3 to 5 patches worth.
or if minimal polishing is required and i happened
to have one a snug bore mop with jb works good.
nice mirror bore with jb.

i also like lee liquid alox if using anything
other than prb

Bugflipper · « **Reply #18 on:** December 23, 2012, 09:51:44 PM »

I think you fellows are misunderstanding a bit. I bore scope a clean barrel and see if there are any areas that need attention. If not the bluing is polished but not removed. If there are burrs or pits they are hand lapped with a cutting abrasive, scoped frequently to see exactly how much more is needed. Then polished out. Probably at 60-100 rpm or so. No rounding of rifling or anything similar. I imagine with enough speed or enough time you could break through the bluing and round out the rifling. The idea of polishing a bore out is just to decrease resistance to lessen the effects of harmonics. The slicker the bore the more accurate it will be. The less imperfections in the bore the less chance of them being covered over with lead. Over time patched round balls will polish a bore out nice and a muzzleloader will improve in accuracy if it had a good bore to begin with. If not the discrepancies in it need to be addressed or it will likely become worse if oil can't penetrate the metal under the lead. The salts trapped under it will make the pits larger by rusting. It's also easier to load in a polished bore. The idea is to have it slick as glass then develop a slick seasoning on top of it. I have a lot of barrels with thousands of conicals through them and they still have bluing. Most bores with a few hundred rounds that you see are bright and shiny. Not trying to argue guys. I just do it my way. To each his own.
Have a good Christmas fellows.

greenrivers · « **Reply #19 on:** December 23, 2012, 10:40:00 PM »

And a very Merry Christmas to all of you as well!

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #20 on:** December 24, 2012, 08:32:40 AM »

I have a different opinion (as usual). I love muzzleloaders, but to me, they are a throwback to bygone days, and when I shoot them, I can't enjoy them unless I do it the way it was done then. To me, that means a patched round ball. Actual bullets came along way after the muzzleloaders we replicate and shoot.
And another thing: The patched round ball will take any game we hunt on this continent. A .54 ball is plenty for whatever. But the conicals and the sabots and the Powerbelts do it better, right? Yep, you get more range and more knockdown. But if you want that, you might as well have an inline, IMO. I like the limitations of the patched roundball, the authenticity of it, the realness that takes me back in my illogical brain to the good ol days.
I hate to admit that I have an inline, a lightweight synthetic stock gun with firesights. So I'm as messed up as anyone.

greenrivers · « **Reply #21 on:** December 26, 2012, 06:36:46 PM »

I attacked that bore again today and at this point seem to be winning with the mineral spirits. I had some on hand and what the heck. For the first time the patches after the brush scrub seem to be getting less and less fouling. I don't know what the heck is in that bore, but the patches are showing a constant grey. The color of lead, but no specs or pieces of lead on them. Not once has the patch indicated any rust color. I think one more new brush may do it. This one is near worn out. Again. A light down the bore shows a nice shiney serface so I am in hopes of saving the barrel.

Ranch13 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 27, 2012, 02:17:56 AM »

If the patches are showing grey, you've still got lead in there.

greenrivers · « **Reply #23 on:** December 27, 2012, 12:46:15 PM »

You are right of coarse Ranch13. My intent was that with each scrubing with a brush soaked in mineral spirits, the wipe down with a patch beomes lighter now. The last couple showed very little. I am going to try patched round ball now and see if I can find any accuracy and hopefully shoot out any remaining lead. I hate giving up on this barrel, but Green Mountain is not far from here.