.30-30 Ackley Improved and/or 7-30 Waters Load Data

[Fred McIntire]

I'm setting up my Contender to deer hunt this year.  I've accumulated some good Whitetail calibers, in addition to the .22 Hornet that it came with. I have a .357 Maximum, a .30-30 Ackley Improved, and a 7-30 Waters barrel.

I found the following load data over on Handgun Hunter for the .30-30 Ackley Improved:

.30-30 Ackley Improved (T/C Contender Super 14) Data

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110gr Hornady V-MAX / 35.0grs. IMR-4198 = 2700 FPS
110gr Hornady V-MAX / 37.0grs. A.A.2015BR = 2700 FPS
110gr Speer Round nose / 34.0grs. RL-7 "not chrono'd yet"
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125gr Nosler BT / 34.5grs. H-4198SC = 2689 FPS
125gr Nosler BT / 34.0grs. IMR-4198 = 2683 FPS
125gr Nosler BT / 34.0grs. IMR-4198 = 2627 FPS

125gr Nosler BT / 33.5grs. IMR-4198 = 2617 FPS
125gr Nosler BT / 38.0grs. A.A.2520 = 2560 FPS
125gr Nosler BT / 36.0grs. A.A.2015BR = 2550 FPS

125gr Nosler BT / 38.0grs. A.A.2230 = 2507 FPS
125gr Nosler BT / 36.0grs. H-322 = 2498 FPS
125gr Nosler BT / 38.0grs. IMR-3031 = 2480 FPS

125gr Nosler BT / 37.0grs. IMR-3031 = 2375 FPS
125gr Nosler BT / 41.5grs. W-748 = 2473 FPS
125gr Nosler BT / 38.0grs. A.A.4064 = 2434 FPS
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130gr Hornady SSP / /33.0grs. IMR-4198 = 2588 FPS
130gr Hornady S.P. / 38.0grs. A.A.2520 = 2520 FPS

130gr Hornady SSP / 36.5grs. H-4895 = 2490 FPS
130gr Speer Flat Nose/38.0grs. H-335 = 2486 FPS

130gr Berger H.P. / 35.0grs. A.A.2015BR = 2371 FPS
130gr Berger H.P. /36.0grs. H-322 = 2346 FPS

130gr Berger H.P. /36.5grs. IMR-4895 = 2257 FPS
130gr Berger H.P. /35.0grs. H-322 = 2245 FPS
130gr Hornady SP /34.0grs RL-10x = 2450fps
130gr Hornady SP /36.0grs. RL-10x = 2580fpsMax. load
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135gr Sierra SSP / 33.5grs. IMR-4198 = 2517 FPS
135gr Sierra SSP /33.0grs. IMR-4198 = 2488 FPS
135gr Sierra SSP /38.5grs. IMR-4895 = 2435 FPS
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150gr Speer / 36.0gr.s IMR-3031 = 2450 FPS
150gr Nosler BT / 36.0grs. IMR-3031 = 2437 FPS
150gr Hornady / 36.5grs. IMR-3031 = 2416 FPS

150gr Speer Flat Point / 36.5grs. IMR-3031 = 2410 FPS
150gr Sierra / 36.5grs. IMR-3031 = 2396 FPS
150gr Hornady S.P. / 38.5grs. Reloader15 = 2390 FPS

150gr Hornady S.P. / 36.5grs. IMR-3031 = 2380 FPS
150gr Speer Mag Tip / 37.0grs. H-335 = 2372 FPS
150gr Hornady / 36.5grs. W-748 = 2370 FPS

150gr Hornady SST / 36.5grs. IMR-3031 = 2369 FPS
150gr Rem PSPCL / 35.0grs. H-322 = 2350 FPS
150gr Hornady S.P. / 37.5grs. A.A.4064 = 2350 FPS

150gr Rem PSPCL / A.A.2520 35.5gr = 2340 FPS
150gr Rem Core-Lockt / 36.5grs. IMR-3031 = 2311 FPS
150gr Hornady S.P. / 33.0grs. Re-7 = 2350 FPS
150gr Nosler bt / 37.5 - 40.0grs Varget = 2350-2400fps
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165gr Hornady B.T.S.P. / 34.0grs. IMR-4895 = 2255 FPS
165gr Speer Spt.B.T. / 34.0grs. IMR-4895 = 2240 FPS
165gr Hornady B.T.S.P. / 31.0grs. Re-7 = 2126 FPS

Here's a link to the discussion:

http://www.handgunhunt.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/68321/page/9


Does anyone have any load data, or a source for load data, as far as the .30-30 Ackley Improved and the 7-30 Waters is concerned ?

If all else fails, I believe I can use the .30-30 Ackley Improved with standard .30-30 loads. Would that be correct ?

Thanks for all input !

Fred

[Graybeard]

Most all load manuals have data for the 7-30 Waters. You might have to look in the handgun section or in some the rifle section. Some list it in both.

As to the .30-30AI I don't think there is any good truly reliable pressure tested data out there. Almost everyone who loads for it loads at FAR GREATER pressures than they do for the .30-30.

My advice to you is to do as I did when I had one. I took five cases and filled them with water as .30-30 and weighted them both with and without water to tell me what the average water capacity was. I think fire formed them into .30-30AI cases and did the same again.

My memory is fuzzy on it but I think there was a 5% or maybe 7% increase in case capacity. So at least in theory if you increase powder weight by more than that percentage over the parent case you have increased the working pressure.

I am of the opinion that most load data I've seen on the AI case is from 20% to 50% higher pressure than the SAAMI max for the .30-30 parent case. Real world this means you are lucky if you add 100 fps and stay within SAAMI limits. If you are gonna ignore SAAMI limits you can do the same thing with the parent case and with pretty much the same danger to yourself and your firearm. Anything more than 75-100 fps increase is due strictly to higher pressures. UNSAFE HIGHER PRESSURES.

[okie44]

Greybeard is right on the money, you cannot use the normal signs most people use for judging pressure. 42,000 p.s.i. is limit for 30-30, if you are using the method of watching primers you can reach a dangerous level before any signs are seen, example same primer in .308 win at 62,000 p.s.i.and not showing any pressure signs, but a 30-30 contender you are in trouble. 30-30 AE is a fine cartridge just don't try to push it to hard.

[Dand]

So yes - you can safely use standard 30-30 load data in the 30-30AI.  Performance will be a little less than for std 30-30 chamber because of the extra case capacity. But it will be safe and work fine.   


GB's explanation of what to expect is dead on.  So start w std 30-30 data and be very careful adding powder over the max load.


I'd guess than even old PO Ackley's load data for his creation might be a bit high - from what I've seen in his old books.


Its my understanding the 30-30AI is  a good cartridge and that you might see less case stretching due to the sharper shoulder.


Good luck hunting.

[jhalcott]

 I have the 7-30 waters in a 14" Contender and my buddy has the 30-30 AI,14" barrel. With my hand loads I am getting better velocity AND trajectory than he is. Accuracy is much easier to get with the 7-30 also, meaning it takes less attempts to find a good load for the 7-30. Hornady #7 manual has data for the 7-30 on page 744 to 750. I find the 120 to 139 grain bullets to be best in the 7-30. With the higher B.C's of 7mm compared to .30 caliber. It's easy to see why it is so popular.! The fact the 7-30 IS a factory round means a lot to me.

[Fred McIntire]

Thanks for the input and information. I'm going to carefully proceed to develop a load for the .30-30 AI.

I agree that the 7-30 Waters is probably going to be an easier project simply due to the availability of load data.

I guess this all goes hand in hand with my other projects this year. I'm going to use my .38-55 Target Classic, and my .45-70 Buffalo Classic, when I get it from Mechanic, to hunt Whitetail Deer here in Indiana. I'll have to trim back the case length to 1.80 inches to meet the Indiana regulations; however, I plan to load to the same overall cartridge length, or as close as possible to it.

Thanks Guys !

[Ranch13]

You can use regular 30-30 data, along with firing regular 30-30 cartridges in your AI chamber. You will get better results in the AI cases using slow for the 30-30 cartridge powders. Powders such as rl 15,4064, 4320 etc.
 Rule of thumb for working up ai data is maximum for the parent cartridge +5% (usually about 2 grs.) for maximum in the AI. Or start with regular 30-30 over the chronograph and working up slowly with 150's when you hit a150-200 fps gain you have reached maximum, and with 170's 100-150 fps gain.

[shot1]

I used the same 30-30AI load data working up some loads for my 14" Contender in 30-30AI. Those loads are over max for my barrel by at least one grain on average. My barrel is a MGM Shilen SS with a good tight chamber. I settled on 33 grs IMR 4198 with a fire formed WW case and a Wolf LR primer and a 125 gr Nosler ballistic tip. I average 2670 fps and have been shooting it for a few years now with no problems. It is a tack driver and a deer slayer. The cases do not grow at all. I have some with 10 firings and they are still the same length as when first made. I have killed 7 deer in the past two years with this rig and all but one have dropped in their tracks. That one was a fired up buck in the rut after a doe. He took three jumps after receiving the 125 BT and piled up dead.

[spinafish]

Hodgdon rep told that the 30-30 AI has a 5% case capacity increase.  You can use any powder that is listed for the standard 30-30 and add 5% to the starting load and then work up from there.  Max load shouldn't be higher than 5% of the published load max.  I seem to get better groups a grain or two under max.