Author Topic: Bailey, Pegg, & Co. Cannon  (Read 1025 times)

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Offline take-down

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Bailey, Pegg, & Co. Cannon
« on: October 03, 2012, 11:03:22 PM »
First off hi to all. I must congratulate all members on such a well informed forum group

I had pleasure of view an interesting piece today
The gentleman that owns this cannon is allowing me to display it at a show we do
http://www.armisticeincambridge.co.nz/
But I would like to find out a bit more info to put with the display

It is 31 1/2" long & has a bore diameter of 1 3/4"
I assume (a dangerous thing to do) that this is a merchant signal canon
This is based on reading & researching the Internet and this site. Which I think that the one ring at the muzzle end would be only for signaling
I assume that it is made between this period
  • Queen Victoria 1837 - 1901
  • When did the Loyd's Insurance Co drop the requirement of vassals to carry cannon?
    The history know en is it was found stuck in the top of  a fence post on a farmers property approx 20 years ago
    I will try to attach a group of photos
    Many thanks in advance if anybody has any more info they could provide
    Cheers

Offline flagman1776

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Re: Bailey, Pegg, & Co. Cannon
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2012, 02:36:20 AM »
Your photos show a nice swivel cannon...  also known as rail guns.  Sometimes deployed with ships boats for raiding parties & many accompaied explorers such as Lewis & Clark.  On large ships were anti-personel weapons, used to discourage boarders & keep unruly crews in line.  As Naval Ordinance became more powerful, keeping enemies at a distance, swivel cannons were dropped from Military use. 
 
http://vallejogallery.com/item.php?id=2214
25 " long with 1½" bore
Circa 1815 with original yoke



With three-stage tapering barrel, initialed on the trunnions, B.P.& Co. and the number 925. The yoke is also signed with the makers name,  B.P & Co. It is  mounted on a iron swivel loosely set within a wooden base with handle and wheels.
 Bailey, Pegg & Co. were founders in London between 1812-1966 initally at the Gunwharf, Wapping, then latterly at 81 Bankside, SE1.  They specialized in supplying iron guns to arm merchant ships amd also to the established trading posts in "outlandish places"
http://www.84f.com/chronology/1900s/1903%20Industry/190314bp.htm
Info on the firm.
 

Offline steelcharge

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Re: Bailey, Pegg, & Co. Cannon
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2012, 02:48:06 AM »
Beautiful gun, just the kind I like! Thanks for posting!

Merchant signal gun? One ring at muzzle?
I've heard this "one ring for something, two for other" thing before, but have never read about them actually designating the guns intended use, could you please tell the source of this info?

To me this gun looks like quite normal cast-iron "insurance gun" for a merchant ship to use against pirates/other unwanted people or atleast to fill the required armament to get insurance for the cargo.
Intended for actual defense/fighting but of course could be also used for signaling.
For the manufacture year, I'm guessing, 1800s-1830s?

I'm quite sure forum member cannonmn will have more to say about this gun.

Offline GLS

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Re: Bailey, Pegg, & Co. Cannon
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2012, 02:54:06 AM »
Excellent looking swivel.  Found on a farm fence post? I quickly ran around my property fence line but darn there was no swivel cannon to be found.

Offline Artilleryman

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Re: Bailey, Pegg, & Co. Cannon
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2012, 08:27:38 AM »
Very nice!  Thanks for posting.
Norm Gibson, 1st SC Vol., ACWSA

Offline take-down

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Re: Bailey, Pegg, & Co. Cannon
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2012, 08:45:24 AM »
Thanks all for your replies
 
I had managed to find out most of what you have said doing hours of searches
 
Yes and it made me sick thinking about how it must of been sitting on the fence post for years & I didn't find it
 
The only shipwreck on the coast next to the farm was a ship built in 1877 in england and shipwrecked in 1901 But I felt this was a bit late for the period of this Cannon, but I could well be wrong
Be interesting to know approx when it was Manufactured
 
Does Connonmn check in here often?
 
Cheers Graham

Offline take-down

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Re: Bailey, Pegg, & Co. Cannon
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2012, 09:37:08 AM »
Steelcharge
Finally found the reference to the muzzle rings it was the 1st reply in this thread
I know not if correct or not
Cheers Graham

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Bailey, Pegg, & Co. Cannon
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2012, 08:26:22 AM »
Hello, you probably found the old article on B&P, now on someone's blog, that gives pretty much the story on that firm.  Your gun looks to me like a mid-to-late 19th C. piece, smooth lines and all.  A muzzle ring, as you put it, is merely part of the style de jour on any cannon, at least in my opinion.  It is possible that some countries at some brief periods of time made it some kind of code for something but I don't think there was any such thing going on with these commercially-produced and openly-sold commodities, the founders only went with what was in fashion, what the customer ordered, or whatever for best business practices.
 
I had a chance to purchase all the old B&P drawings, all FULL SIZED on linen, from the late Val J. Forgette Jr. but did not come up with the $4k required in time and they eventually went back to a museum in the UK, I don't know which, perhaps search online.  Some had notations as to what the gun was intended for, but I never saw the drawings personally.
 
Your swivel gun was for insurance purposes, not a salute gun, as merchant ships did not normally fire salutes.

Offline take-down

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Re: Bailey, Pegg, & Co. Cannon
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2012, 01:49:14 PM »
Thanks Cannonmn
Yes I had found most of the info on previous threads and other sites
 
Your feeling of manufacture period would then quite possibly tie in with the 1877 date of the Barque "Lizzie Bell" being built and shipwrecked of the coast where this was found in 1901
 
May thanks for taking the time to look at this
 
Cheers Graham

Offline A.Roads

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Re: Bailey, Pegg, & Co. Cannon
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2012, 08:31:59 PM »
On the subject of muzzle rings:
 
It is possible that some countries at some brief periods of time made it some kind of code for something but I don't think there was any such thing going on with these commercially-produced and openly-sold commodities, the founders only went with what was in fashion, what the customer ordered, or whatever for best business practices.

I too have found little to show that any code of practice was adhered to, and then not very rigidly, as demonstrated by this passage pertaining to British ordnance, writtten circa 1865: 
 
The chief difference between the Shot & Shell gun is,  that the Shell guns have Gomer chambers,       whilst the Shot guns have not.  As a rule,  the Shell guns have two muzzle mouldings & Shot guns    three -  but this is not an invariable rule,-  as there are 2 or 3 Shot guns which have only two mouldings.