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Author Topic: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win  (Read 970 times)

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Offline Dinny

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338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« on: October 10, 2012, 07:13:12 PM »
Are there any distinct advantages to one or the other in a Handi rifle? I know it would cost more for a 338 Fed due to the rebore however, Jes does them at a bargain price. No extractor mods are necessary for either one, just use a factory .308 family extractor. I think they're too close to have one of each, but for someone planning a new project it may be worth looking at both. Especially if that someone already has a 22-250, 243, 7mm-08 or 308 barrel.

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

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Offline jeepmann1948

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Re: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2012, 11:33:54 PM »
IMHO  ;D
 I think the two are very close together. The 338 Federal has an advantage of a larger bullet choice for reloading while the 358 is cheaper to build. Both can use the 308 case to reload or with a simple rim cut 356/307brass.
The Federal Fusion 338 Federal 200 grain load has a published velocity of 2660fps,which according to my ballistics program gives it a point blank range of 241 yards.
The Winchester Silvertip 200 grain load has a published velocity of 2490 fps giving it a 217 yard point blank range.
 In the real world of hunting this difference is not that important (again IMHO).
 This topic has the potential of becoming a new style discussion of:
  Is the 270 or 30-06 better or
  Is the 30-30 or 35 Rem better?
  Great topic Dinny
 BTW
 Are you having fun yet? Giving any enemas or douches to the Afgans ?
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Offline Dinny

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Re: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2012, 12:15:14 AM »
No fun here at all. :( I haven't been all that busy for a while now.  ::)

That 200gr Fusion load at 2660fps is pretty impressive. That's in 30-06 territory and has a larger diameter bullet to boot.



Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

Offline 336SC

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Re: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2012, 12:46:28 AM »
If you shoot only factory loads the nod goes to the 338 Federal.  However most of us .358 Win shooters are died in the wool handloaders and I'm one of them.  As was noted above there are more bullets for reloading in .338 caliber than in .35 caliber.  However, MOST of the available component bullets are designed for magnum .338's and may not perform properly in the 338 Federal.  There is no such problem with the .35 caliber bullets out there.  I have three .358 Winchester rifles.  One is a rechambered 760 carbine, one is a custom rifle built on a Rem 700 short action, and a Ruger 77 Hawkeye, blued with wood stock.  Using Ramshot TAC powder I'm able to load the 200gr pointed HDY or RP bullets to 2670fps and the big deadly 250gr HDY RN @ 2400fps.  Both of those reloads in the .358 Win exceed the .35 Whelen factory loads tested in my Rem 700 classic .35 Whelen.  There is no fly in the ointment for anyone who loads for the .358 Win.  There is nothing in all of North America that I would not take on with my .358 Winchesters when so loaded.
336SC
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Offline petemi

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Re: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2012, 12:53:18 AM »
Just this morning I was poking around in the data looking at .356/.358 loads.  I have the components for this one, and it looks good.  200 gr. Hornady PSP over IMR3031 for 2630 fps.  Sighted at 210 yards with a Max Point Blank of 247.  I'm gonna make up a few today and see how they do at 200 (if the #@&(*^%$# wind and sleet stops).  If accuracy holds up with this load, it's right up there with the Whelen.

Pete
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The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
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Offline Dinny

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Re: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2012, 12:55:13 AM »
336SC,
  That's a good point about factory ammo. The factory ammo guys will have a hard time finding .358 Win ammo. Looks like Hornady is the only major manufacturer. Double Tap and Buffalo Bore is available at a premium and online order only.

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

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Offline Dinny

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Re: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2012, 01:02:41 AM »
Pete,
  You can send some of that sleet and wind this way. It's still in the upper 90s midday here. I have only seen rain once in the last 6 months and it only lasted for about 20 minutes.

That load is stout, be sure to bring along some padding for your shoulder.

Here's a couple more hard hitters: https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=249

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

Offline petemi

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Re: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2012, 01:27:22 AM »
Our local guy has both .356 and .358 Winchester ammo with 200 gr. Power Points in stock for 55 bucks per 20 :o :o   Yeah, it's definitely a reloader's ball game.  After the brass is bought, I'm running about 10 bucks a box.  200 each .356 and .358 brass will last me quite a while.  I think I'm going to give the 225 gr. Sierra BT Gameking a whirl next.  I like the boat tails.

Pete
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Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
[size=7.4 pt]PLEASE DONATE TO THE GBO SERVER FUND  We're closer to the goal but not there yet, we can still use more donations, thanks

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,191112.msg1098959491.html#msg1098959491

Offline bucmeister

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Re: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2012, 03:53:40 AM »
Honestly, to be brutally blunt, I am not really that impressed with the overall quality of my Handi and my only initial interest in the break open single shot rifles was fueled by the MS Primitive Weapons rules that calls for 35 or larger caliber which will serve to squash any interest I might would have in the 338 Fed.  The lousy trigger is legendary and when I first opened the barrel to look at the chamber and rifling there was a clear machining ring/lip/mark at the front of the throat.  Figure if it becomes suspect if there are accuracy issues either some hand lapping with BP paste or fire lapping like LBT touts would take care of it, which only time will tell.  Yes, I realize that these are not top of the line custom guns etc, etc.

I had actually held off even buying a single shot for the season and kept carrying my Wolf muzzle loader hoping they would just drop the primitive part, but when I ran across the very rare new 35 Remington Handi I finally decided to bite the bullet.  Now it has become a new interest and project to get good results from the Handi platform or the CVA scout if they would come out with a 35 caliber smaller than the Whelen.  Yes, I know it can be loaded down, but I just want to mess around with the smaller 356/358 platform for tinkering and experimenting.

For the Primitive part of it I don't really know why I am messing with it at all since I have not made a kill during that season for at least 3 years. 
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Offline Dinny

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Re: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2012, 07:06:18 PM »
Bucmeister,
  I wouldn't worry too much about that chamber imperfection. It will all be cleaned-out by your rechamber. If you have the same success others have had with their 358/356, maybe this year will be a wall-hanging year. ;)

Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

Offline bucmeister

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Re: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2012, 01:59:33 AM »
Dinny, 

Recall that I am only going from 35Rem to 356Win just like cwlongshot did.  I didn't think that particular job would be altering the throat area.
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Offline bucmeister

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Re: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2012, 07:32:38 AM »
There I went again, speaking/keyboarding a reply to soon.  After receiving a dummy round in the mail today from a very generous Graybeards member I was able to look see and feel a 356 round and the case is definitely longer, so I stand corrected the ream job will get into the throat area after all.  So the lesson here is that even at well over a half century of age I still need to learn to keep my mouth shut, my fingers off keyboard, and listen!!! 

According to the wiki pages on the 35Rem and 356Win the 35Rem case length is 1.920 and the 356Win is 2.015 so the extra 0.095 will make a difference even though I think the spot in the barrel is deeper.  Time will tell for sure.

I believe this is going to turn a really good gun/round into a sho'nuff  stud hoss!!

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Offline Dinny

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Re: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2012, 02:20:03 AM »
 ;)  ;D


Thanks, Dinny
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Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

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Offline twoshooter

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Re: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2012, 04:32:10 AM »
I have often wondered about a 338 Federal, I thought the 358 Win did not get the respect it deserved, and when the Federal round came out I thought it was a good replacement. The .020 difference makes the shoulder more generous for headspacing, it is less stress when resizing cases up from 308, so should work really well. I think the Federal round is a natural for the handi, wish they made one.
 ::) IF I were not a rimmed case fanatic that is  :o ;)
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2012, 04:53:46 AM »
Don't count on a 338 anything anytime some unless the H&R/Marlin/Remington powers to be change, the 338 MX was suggested by their Brand Manager at one time, it still didn't happen.  :-\

Tim

338 Marlin Express Poll
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Offline jeepmann1948

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Re: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2012, 06:15:22 AM »
I agree with Tim. The market for the Primitive Weapons states start at 35 caliber so it would not be a good idea for H&R to make 338 anything from a marketing standpoint.
George
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Offline 336SC

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Re: 338 Fed vs. 358 Win
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2012, 10:59:31 AM »
Thanks Dinny.  The only .358 Winchester of mine to ever shoot a factory load was my rechambered 760 carbine.  Never used the factory loads in it to hunt, just shot them away for the brass and to check the chamber dimensions on that 760.  I bought another box several years ago just for me to have a box.  The ones I shot away years ago were never chronographed by me as I did not have one at the time.  What I have read on WW's .358 Win factory loads is they don't even reach 2500fps.  All of my .358's just love the HDY 200gr FTX bullet.  I'll probably keep using those FTX bullets as I went nuts and bought 700 of them.  The wife will probably be selling most of my stuff at the "Big Yard Sale" after I'm gone.  I can't live long enough to use up all the stuff I've garnered over the years.
336SC
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